HELP! - Big Transmission Problem

05 GT Ltd.

50K miles

 

I was driving around 30 mph in 3rd gear, when I suddenly heard a grinding sound from the gear box (like when someone makes a bad shift) I instinctively stepped down on the clutch and put the car into neutral. But then for some reason I couldn't put the car into gear. At all. I pulled over to the side of the road.

 

And when I released the clutch the pedal, it didn't pop back up.

 

I looked to see if it was stuck on the floor mat or something like that but it wasn't. The pedal can pop back up if I manually flick it up with my foot but there's no weight behind so the clutch is not engaging.

 

I just had my clutch replaced about a year ago at around 42K.

 

Any ideas out there of what could've happened?!

 

This is my 2nd major problem with transmission/linkage in this car. Look at my other post on shifter bushing problem for reference.

Sounds like a slave/master cylinder issue.

same thing happened to my buddy a couple years ago in a modified CRX..

 

exiting the highway, clutch pedal went to the floor, wouldnt pop back up. Clutch line had lit on fire somehow and disintegrated, master cylinder had to be replaced as well.

 

agree with chutrain's diagnosis, GL

well grinding sound came first ... maybe throw out bearing .. or the pressure plate or flywheel came loose.

The grinding sound did come first.

 

Master and slave cylinder depressing the clutch would be a different system than the gears, would it not?

Master/Slave cylinder can be called the clutch hydraulics. It is a different system then the transmission gears. If you cannot shift and your pedal stays to the floor its likely that one of the hydraulic parts failed. First, check to see if you have fluid in the clutch master cylinder.

 

When your trans grinded, where you changing gears at the time? Or did it just start grinding while you were in gear?

Something started grinding all of a sudden, it caught me off guard because I wasn't changing gears.

if your car was in gear and you were driving along and this just happened, I can assure you it's not hydraulic..

 

did you drive the car really hard in the last couple days? and do you have an upgraded HD clutch?

 

I'm asking, cause on my B4, this happened, and it ended up being 2nd gear crumbling because I fractured it a couple nights before.. after driving it day after day, all the expansion and contraction of the metal, it finally gave way and crunched the cog.

 

part 2.. not knowing exactly what it was, I decided to try and fix" it by flat changing 2nd gear.......... long story short - Input shaft was in pieces.

If you didn't replace the throwout bearing when replacing the clutch that may be the answer - a toasted throwout bearing.

 

Or you did get a bad throwout bearing when the clutch was replaced.

 

Result is the same - separation of gearbox/engine is needed.

 

Grinding sound rules out hydraulics - and if the pedal doesn't come up it means that there is nothing that returns it, which usually is the job of the clutch spring. There is a small spring on the pedal too, but that's more there to keep it from rattling.

 

I would suspect a bad job done when the clutch was replaced.

Wasn't there something here about the clutch fork causing a noise ?I thoght it could come loose on some cars ???

@XXB4XX

 

I haven't been driving hard at all and shifting gingerly because of my other problem.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/shift-bushing-tore-free-sheet-metal-148190.html

 

@ehsnils

Need to check the paperwork on the throw out bearing but talking to a former dealer tech he said it was standard to swap that out when replacing a clutch.

 

@seabass07

 

With the engine off I can shift into reverse completely.

 

I can feel the gate for 1st and 2nd but it won't completely go in.

 

3rd, 4th and 5th I can't find the gear.

On my first outback (99) one day, I was driving and all of the sudden clutch pedal went to the floor while I was trying to shift! Car was stuck in gear! Anyway long story short, throwout bearing was dead.

Symptom----->When I was depressing the clutch pedal, you could see that the slave rod was working fine and was trying to push the clutch fork (which in turn actuates the throwout bearing). But since the throwout bearing was dead, the slave rod could not do its job anymore and could not come back to place and bring clutch pedal back. Result: pedal stayed to da floor and driving it was scary. So fault was throwout bearing.

Got it changed and also got resurfaced flywheel, and new clutch 1000$ later .

@seabass07

 

With the engine off I can shift into reverse completely.

 

^How about the clutch pedal? Could you shift without depressing the pedal? Cause I recall being able to shift my car as well when engine was off without depressing the pedal. Well, I could not depress it anyway.

I took it to a mechanic today.

 

What I did forget to mention was that I've heard the "whirring" noise at start-up that disappears after 1/2 second or so about 4 times.

 

I've read on other posts about this noise. It sounds like when it's cold people are starting to hear this.

 

When I told the mechanic this he said he thinks it's the pilot bearing seizing.

 

I'll find out more tomorrow.

@xt2005bonbon

 

The clutch pedal is stuck fully down.

 

I can manually flick it up with my foot but there's no weight behind it like normal.

I dropped off my car at Subaru Independent in North Hollywood.

 

The owner Avo saying there's no transmission problems but the clutch disk basically exploded. He says he's never seen it before and they don't know how it happened.

 

The friction material on the clutch disk was shredded into little threads and basically there was metal on metal action.

 

The pilot bearing and throw-out bearing seem fine when I played with them.

When I asked the mechanic about the TOB, he mumbled "it almost seized". It seemed ok to me.

 

Avo is telling me to swap out all the pieces saying there are "hot-spots" on the flywheel which will cause the clutch not to engage "smoothly".

 

When I asked him why can't you re-surface it and use it again? He got a bit defensive and said something along the lines of "Subaru trained me not to resurface rotors. You're supposed to replace them or not touch them."

 

Avo had to take a call so I asked the mechanic doing the work if he could explain how "hot-spots" would affect clutch engagement. He didn't want to give me an explanation and basically said "talk to the boss".

 

When I had my clutch replaced at around 42K, at Subie of Glendale they said they just resurfaced the flywheel.

 

I asked him for a written quote for parts and labor which he was reluctant to give it to me so he verbally gave me the below.

 

 

Here is the quote they're giving me.

-----------

LABOR - 450

 

PARTS -

Flywheel - 560

Pressure Plate - 170

Disk- 175

Throw Out Bearing - 45

Pilot Bearing - 15

 

TOTAL= 1415

-------------

 

I had the clutch replaced at around 42K at Subaru Glendale

 

I asked him how many hrs the labor would be, he "backed into" his 450 quote above. i.e. $450/ $75 per hr (which he quoted me earlier).

 

-----------

Pic 1- "Bare" disk with shredded friction plate material. Notice there is no material left on the disk.

 

Pic 2- Flywheel with "hot-spots". Basically they're calling the uneven coloring on the rotor this.

 

Pic 3 - Box of shredded friction plate from clutch.

-----------

 

I'm going to ask around for some more quotes but would appreciate any insight / feedback / thoughts on the above.

 

I don't trust what they're telling me now about replacing the flywheel and the price seems quite high for that piece.

Ughhh, that looks like it may have been a total disk failure. You should be talking to the original installer about replacing this under some sort of warranty.

Ok buddy you said that you had a clutch repalced at 42k at Subaru of Gendale I assume that is Calfornia and not AZ right.

Second you have traveled 8k miles in how many months? I asked this because you useually have a warranty of XXX amount of miles or XX months which every comes first.

Here is where things get tricky, when your clutch died you should have gone back to the original installer and had them tear the car down. If they are a stand-up shop they would tear it down without any up front cost and covered the repairs .If it was there fault you are home free, if it was due to abuse you would have a bill on your hands.

Now that you have taken your car to another shop the original installer is basicly off the hook. Reason: A) You need the car asap and that motivates a person to drop cash. B) They are not going to fight with the other shop to pay for the damages because that requiers time and effort, and it is not their problem but yours. C). If you don't trust them and have a writer that will not give you a writen estimate for repairs you are dealing with anyone that is trying to help you out, but is trying to make an undocumented transaction that means your trans pops again, good luck proving they installed the clutch.

Check this link out.

http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/07_AutoRepair/Auto_Repair_Guide.html

This states that BY LAW they have to give you a writen estimate for work performed it protects you and them. This took 30 seconds to find online.

Looks like you are buying a new clutch.

You have an OEM flywheel?

If so 99% of shops will not resurface them. FYI thoose are single use parts and cost a nut too.

BTW i have a spare stock cltuch sitting at home if you are in a tight spot... PM me.

@socalsleeper

 

* Subaru of Glendale in CA.

* Flywheel is OEM

 

* Clutch was replaced on Jan 1-2010

 

Agreed. If I don't trust them, I shouldn't be giving them my business.

 

Yes, I"m buying a new clutch. The question for me is whether or not I need a new flywheel.

 

I just talked to Legacy Repair Automotive in Van Nuys and they said they could potentially re-surface (they need to diagnose).

 

Why would wont' shops re-surface OEM flywheels?

Yes you will prob need a new flywheel

Reason you dont resurface is because they are dual mass assemblies and not a traditional round flat piece of steel. That you can shave down to a resemble the body of jesus christ (super-star!!). I would not put it in my car, but it can be done.

I've taken the fly-wheel to several shops for assessment.

 

The only one that seems willing to try to do the work is a specialty racing shop called the Balance Shop. He's willing try re-surfacing both the rotor and the elevated edge.

 

Apparently, if the other side of the flywheel is bluish, than that means the heat went through to the other side and it's unusable.