Subaru Denying "Turbo Stutter" as an issue on 05' Need Your Help!!!

So my 2005 Legacy GT is suffering from the well known turbo stutter, that I get between 2-3k rpms during acceleration and also when the car has just been turned on and isn't warmed up yet. I know lots of guys were sayig they had brought their car in, had it confirmed that was the issue, then Subaru called to tech line, the tech line arranged for the ECU to be shipped to NJ ot be re-flashed, and that solved the problem.

 

Fast forward to now, I confront my dealer about this, he says turbo stutter was never an issue on the 05' model, and he said ECU's were never sent anywhere. He also said their aren't even any re-flashes available for the 05', its only available for the 07 and 08 models. I told him about the issue and he still claimed he had no idea about it, and said they reflash ECU's at the dealership there and there isn't even a reflash out for the 05's.

 

So I call SOA to see if someone there knows. Essentially useless, but after a while he found that there are two reflashes available, none for "stutter", but for surging issues. Do any of you know if this is what Subaru refers to it as?

 

What I would like is any of you who had 05's with the turbo stutter that got it fixed, if you have any documentation at all, e-mails, receipts, anything that you think could be of help to me if you could please send that to me that would be great. I just need to find proof to show him it is a problem and it can and has been remedied before, but unfortunately there is no re-call or TSB#/Reference# available. I would rather not go in, pay a diagnostic fee and then have them tell me its all this other stuff is causing the problem like most dealerships will. If you guys can help in any way I would really really appreciate it. Thanks!

 

CLIFFS: Subaru is saying turbo stutter never happened on the 05's, and that there is no reflash available. Also said ECU's were never sent to be reflashed in NJ, if any of you that had this taken care of have documentation you could give me to help that would be great!

LOL Unbelievable. They are playing with words ! Stutter, surging, hesitation ..whatever the heck they want to call it, basically it is a lack of smooth power delivery. Maybe you should start threatening a class action lawsuit and see how fast they come up with a fix. Don't see wht they couldn't put the '07-08 fix into an '05. Whats different ?? The SI drive shouldn't really make any difference as that is just throttle response and scaling. The new reflash is simply a better tuned fuel map. Good luck with the dealer.

Do yourself a favour and check http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/index.jsp for any bulletins or fixes for your car. Insist that all of them be done.

Well, there is some truth to what he said. Back in '05, they didn't have the ability to flash the ECU at the dealership, so that was why they were sending them to SOA for that service at the time. That changed in early - mid '06 when the dealers got the new equipment to flash the '05 and '06 models (version of select monitor maybe?).

 

And while the flash helped on the '05 models, it was widely reported as being a temporary fix and that the stutter returned ... i.e. it was a "learned" behavior by the ECU. At that, simply resetting the ECU will have the same effect.

 

The best reported results for dimishing or elminating the stutter was to get an aftermarket tune. The AccessPort helps significantly out of the box, and a pro-tune seemed to have the best results for most folks.

 

As for the tech, he could be saying that they have checked your car and found that the latest revision of the ECU code is installed on your car. Since the recall was out for the ECU fan relay in spring '07, most of the '05 models have been reflashed by a dealer when in for service if the ECU wasn't replaced at that time if it was found to be damaged by a faulty fan relay.

Well, there is some truth to what he said. Back in '05, they didn't have the ability to flash the ECU at the dealership, so that was why they were sending them to SOA for that service at the time. That changed in early - mid '06 when the dealers got the new equipment to flash the '05 and '06 models (version of select monitor maybe?).

 

 

I brought this up to them, and he said there was never a reflash for the 05' and the problem doesn't exist on that model. I told him how they used to have the SOA tech line send them to NJ to be flashed and he said that wasn't true and has never happened...Thats why i was hoping I could get someone to possibly show me any receipts or e-mails, or any type of proof that they had this done so I could show it to the dealership.

 

And while the flash helped on the '05 models,

it was widely reported as being a temporary fix

and that the stutter returned ... i.e. it was a "learned" behavior by the ECU.

At that, simply resetting the ECU will have the same effect.

 

Exactly!

 

 

Why not just unplug your battery and solve the issue?

 

 

 

As a matter of fact, it it wasn't 12º outside, I'd go and do mine right now.

I brought this up to them, and he said there was never a reflash for the 05' and the problem doesn't exist on that model. I told him how they used to have the SOA tech line send them to NJ to be flashed and he said that wasn't true and has never happened...Thats why i was hoping I could get someone to possibly show me any receipts or e-mails, or any type of proof that they had this done so I could show it to the dealership.

 

Your dealers full of it. The reflash does exist and it was a well documented issue on the '05's, I know because I had the issue, brought it in as I had heard about it first on this forum. They documented the problem, confirmed there was a reflash available and reflashed it there at the dealer. This was later when the dealers had the ability to reflash verses sending the chip out. The reflash did help but did not eliminate the issue entirely. I am away at the present but will look up my paperwork for you when I am back on Monday.

Your dealers full of it. The reflash does exist and it was a well documented issue on the '05's, I know because I had the issue, brought it in as I had heard about it first on this forum. They documented the problem, confirmed there was a reflash available and reflashed it there at the dealer. This was later when the dealers had the ability to reflash verses sending the chip out. The reflash did help but did not eliminate the issue entirely. I am away at the present but will look up my paperwork for you when I am back on Monday.

 

Thanks man that is what I thought, just needed a way to prove it to them. If you could get me that paperwork whenever you get a chance that would be great!! I can't stand dealerships, its not even like I want them to do anything labor intensive, its a simple re-flash. I don't even mind paying the $85 to do it.

Well, if they are denying the existence of the ECU deal with the fan relay, just get the Service Manager involved. This has to be a new tech or something, because there was an SOA issued recall in '07 on the relay deal. I don't know how they can deny that!

 

Here's a copy of the SOA Recall: http://www.thel7.com/Recalls/WVB-12.pdf

Well, if they are denying the existence of the ECU deal with the fan relay, just get the Service Manager involved. This has to be a new tech or something, because there was an SOA issued recall in '07 on the relay deal. I don't know how they can deny that!

 

Here's a copy of the SOA Recall: http://www.thel7.com/Recalls/WVB-12.pdf

 

Thanks man, this is probably a stupid question, but what does the faulty fan relay have to do with a stutter caused by the ECU? I though it was a problem of the ECU causing it to run too rich.

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Amc machine history

Yes I believe these are 2 different issues with the 05 LGT

You know, I was thinking about that earlier too ... and the connection is that I don't know of anyone who had their ECU sent back for the stutter, but rather when the first people started sending back their ECU for the fan relay problem, some were reporting that the stutter seemed to be gone when they got the new ECU in.

 

I don't recall anyone getting the ECU sent in for stutter at all. I don't think Subaru ever acknowledged it as an issue since it didn't prevent the car from operating properly.

 

So I am pretty sure that the tech is right ... Subaru doesn't have anything on the stutter issue. I would say your best bet is to reset the ECU or get yourself an AccessPort.

Most 2005 5MT cars were delivered with either the 500N or 510N rom.

 

The stutter fix rom for the 2005 5MT is 521N. I believe in the Subaru notes, it says that the 521N is specifically for the stutter.

 

The 522N rom is for the cruise control issue.

Either way, most vehicles have been updated after the Recall notice, so in all likelihood, anything there would be to "fix" it has likely been installed on the car.

Most people who ask me for help tuning their car have the 510N rom on their ecu. The couple who didn't have the 510N, had the 522N due to the cruise control not working (neutral switch).

 

The dealer only replaces the ecu if it's fried. Most of the time, they just replace the fan relay.

 

Also, unmarrying a APV1 automatically reverts back to 510N.

Depending on the version of the AP.

 

Also, unmarrying a APV1 automatically reverts back to 510N.

 

Unless you have a REALLY old APV1, you will get 510N. The really old non-updated ones revert back to 500N.

Disregard.

Unless you have a REALLY old APV1, you will get 510N. The really old non-updated ones revert back to 500N.

What if you have an AP v2 that did NOT copy your ECU when installed?