Tires are bad. Whats with this?

I see it all over here...."the Bridgestone Potenza RE-92's are crapola." "This car would do so much better with better tires" "yadda, yadda, yadda" Seeing as I don't currently have a LGT yet.....what is the REASON for this general consensus? Are these tires: Bad in the dry? Bad in the rain? Bad in the snow? Wear too quickly? Wear like iron? Prone to cupping? Not grippy enough? Not round? There really is no "perfect" tire. And usually OEM tires aren't know for their "high quality", so..... what is it about these tires specifically guys, that stink so bad? Don't be afraid of being too technical.....while I'm no expert, my tire knowledge is vast.

Look at the tirerack ratings, apparently all of the above..

Look at 1010Tires.com... The RE92 rates #252 out of 254 All Weather tires. It is the worst of the worst. The Toyo Proxes 4 is rated at the top. I had Toyo's installed two days ago. World of difference. Regards, Dan.

[quote name='TLS']I see it all over here...."the Bridgestone Potenza RE-92's are crapola." "This car would do so much better with better tires" "yadda, yadda, yadda" Seeing as I don't currently have a LGT yet.....what is the REASON for this general consensus? Are these tires: Bad in the dry? Bad in the rain? Bad in the snow? Wear too quickly? Wear like iron? Prone to cupping? Not grippy enough? Not round? There really is no "perfect" tire. And usually OEM tires aren't know for their "high quality", so..... what is it about these tires specifically guys, that stink so bad? Don't be afraid of being too technical.....while I'm no expert, my tire knowledge is vast.[/quote] The RE92s are, for most consumers, a fine tire. They have sufficient grip, and are a good all-season bit of rubber. They can be improved on the Legacy GT by bumping up the pressure. But for the enthusiast, who is using more of the car's available performance, you can circle "all of the above" for the RE92. Because of the highish mileage the tires provide, they tend to be harder, with a bit more plastic in them. This accounts for the mediocre performance when drived spiritedly, in wet conditions. In snow, again, you can get going fine. It's braking and turning that must be done gingerly. Some people view the RE92 as a "learning" tire. They teach you to stay within the limits of the car, and learn to drive smoothly. The dry grip characteristics don't tolerate tossing the car around hooliganism gladly. The RE92s are often reviled, but I think this is unfair. As I said above, they aren't a bad tire for civilians. But as you use more of the car, their deficiencies become more apparent. So the two options become be careful, or get new tires. Most people choose the latter. Kevin

They are grappy tireds.

They are fine for people who just drive around like an 80 year old. But they are not fine for the true potential this car really has.

[quote name='Drift Monkey']They are grappy tireds.[/quote] Very informative.. :roll: To be honest i can't really comment on the RE-92s that came on the GT because I haven't had to deal with them. I swapped them out before I took delivery. I can comment on the RE92's on the WRX which are an even WORSE tire than the version on the GT. They had extreme sidewall flex, they were pretty pathetic as far as all weather conditions traction. they were livable in snow and rain, but they didn't do anything right. A move to upscale for Subaru could be as simple as supplying some decent OEM rubber.

[quote name='Dr. Zevil'][quote name='Drift Monkey']They are grappy tireds.[/quote] Very informative.. :roll: To be honest i can't really comment on the RE-92s that came on the GT because I haven't had to deal with them. I swapped them out before I took delivery. I can comment on the RE92's on the WRX which are an even WORSE tire than the version on the GT. They had extreme sidewall flex, they were pretty pathetic as far as all weather conditions traction. they were livable in snow and rain, but they didn't do anything right. A move to upscale for Subaru could be as simple as supplying some decent OEM rubber.[/quote] Maybe uninformative, but that's what it comes down to. They are among the crappiest all seasons one can find and don't do anything well at all.

Sounds like a Baja, DM. :lol: It's spec on if you like to have fun with your car, the shortcomings (all listed above) wil be ever more apparent the more you push the car. Better rubber will not feel like the car is being pushed so hard and will bring about more confidance, but know your limits and the limits of the conditions you are driving in.

[quote name='gtguy'][quote name='TLS']I see it all over here...."the Bridgestone Potenza RE-92's are crapola." "This car would do so much better with better tires" "yadda, yadda, yadda" Seeing as I don't currently have a LGT yet.....what is the REASON for this general consensus? Are these tires: Bad in the dry? Bad in the rain? Bad in the snow? Wear too quickly? Wear like iron? Prone to cupping? Not grippy enough? Not round? There really is no "perfect" tire. And usually OEM tires aren't know for their "high quality", so..... what is it about these tires specifically guys, that stink so bad? Don't be afraid of being too technical.....while I'm no expert, my tire knowledge is vast.[/quote] The RE92s are, for most consumers, a fine tire. They have sufficient grip, and are a good all-season bit of rubber. They can be improved on the Legacy GT by bumping up the pressure. But for the enthusiast, who is using more of the car's available performance, you can circle "all of the above" for the RE92. Because of the highish mileage the tires provide, they tend to be harder, with a bit more plastic in them. This accounts for the mediocre performance when drived spiritedly, in wet conditions. In snow, again, you can get going fine. It's braking and turning that must be done gingerly. Some people view the RE92 as a "learning" tire. They teach you to stay within the limits of the car, and learn to drive smoothly. The dry grip characteristics don't tolerate tossing the car around hooliganism gladly. The RE92s are often reviled, but I think this is unfair. As I said above, they aren't a bad tire for civilians. But as you use more of the car, their deficiencies become more apparent. So the two options become be careful, or get new tires. Most people choose the latter. Kevin[/quote] I lived with r92's on my wrx for a while and the real problem is in the wet. This is where I disagree with Kevin's comment. I didn't expect much in the snow, and I didn't get much, but it doesn't claim to be a snow tire. I should be able to drive safely in the rain, without much fear of hydroplaning. I felt very unstable with these tires on wet roads, even driving normal speeds.

The RE92's all are M&S rated meaning they are supposed to be able to handle some snow.

[quote name='gtguy']The RE92s are, for most consumers, a fine tire. They have sufficient grip, and are a good all-season bit of rubber. Kevin[/quote] Kevin, The big problem with the RE92's is safety in wet weather. Even in the few days I had them, when driving on wet streets, they felt loose. The rear tires even broke free a couple of times in a turn. That was VERY disconcerting! One fellow had a very bad accident because his GT hit a puddle and hydroplaned. The car spun 2 and 1/2 times and slammed into a guard rail. It was totaled. (He admitted that he was going to fast for the conditions, but never-the-less...) Overall, the RE92's rate VERY poor in wet weather performance. For a slow, economy car, this may be OK. For a performance car, like the OBXT or Legacy GTs, that is unacceptable. The engine and supension are MUCH better than the standard tires. This combo will get you in trouble. If you live in dry places, such as Southern California or Arizona, the RE92's may be fine. In Seattle (where I live), it's wet much of the year and the RE92's are NOT fine. Regards, Dan.

[quote name='BookemDano'][quote name='gtguy']The RE92s are, for most consumers, a fine tire. They have sufficient grip, and are a good all-season bit of rubber. Kevin[/quote] Kevin, The big problem with the RE92's is safety in wet weather. Even in the few days I had them, when driving on wet streets, they felt loose. The rear tires even broke free a couple of times in a turn. That was VERY disconcerting! One fellow had a very bad accident because his GT hit a puddle and hydroplaned. The car spun 2 and 1/2 times and slammed into a guard rail. It was totaled. (He admitted that he was going to fast for the conditions, but never-the-less...) Overall, the RE92's rate VERY poor in wet weather performance. For a slow, economy car, this may be OK. For a performance car, like the OBXT or Legacy GTs, that is unacceptable. The engine and supension are MUCH better than the standard tires. This combo will get you in trouble. If you live in dry places, such as Southern California or Arizona, the RE92's may be fine. In Seattle (where I live), it's wet much of the year and the RE92's are NOT fine. Regards, Dan.[/quote] Again, people aren't reading my comments properly. I said the RE92s are fine for civilians, which I took care to diffrentiate from enthusiasts. They are different beasts. The guy who hydroplaned was going between 80 and 90 mph in the rain. He himself admitted to a deficit of circumspection. I wouldn't blame the RE92s for that. My comments above are my opinion. For 90% of people who buy a Legacy GT or Outback, those tires will be fine. If they weren't, you'd see a hue and cry from the populace. Never forget that Subaru doesn't just sell cars to enthusiasts. As a matter of fact, enthusiasts are a small percentage of the automaker's overall sales figures. Kevin

moved to tires forum. cheers.

So do you have to be in the Military to switch to another tire? :lol:

I was thinking the same thing rao. :lol:

I agree about the wet weather driving. I have hit puddles at speed on a couple of our high quality toll roads (oxymoron) and it was pretty scary. No AWD vehicle should be getting that squirly at 70 or 80 mph. Mine are going in the trash to be replaced by Falken Ziex ZE-512's as I cannot get the Toyo P4's in 225/55/17 only the S/T's which are really an SUV tire.

[quote name='"gtguy"'][quote name='"BookemDano"'][quote name='gtguy']The RE92s are, for most consumers, a fine tire. They have sufficient grip, and are a good all-season bit of rubber. Kevin[/quote] I respectfully disagree. If it werent for the RE-92's I could possibly be driving around in my WRX now instead of it being a scrap heap in some junkyard in western New York. I can't say it is all the tire's fault but im complaining because I'd expect a tire to have some margin of predictability and saftey. There is none with this tire. My fathers 4runner with knobby 75 profile truck tires had more predictability than these POS tires. They would at least squeal and complain before completely losing traction and sending you into a gaurdrail. They suck period. They are not predictable, they loose grip instantly. In wet weather the nightmare gets worse. They get squirly in mildly damp weather and hydroplane like slicks on the highway AT NORMAL SPEEDS in downpours. In the dry there is a very very thin line between staying on the road and complete loss of traction. In snow they have almost no directional control I spent the whole winter 2 years ago steering by throttle because thats all the tires would respond to. They do make nice drag racing tires though. The lack of traction helps to get the perfect amount of wheelspin to unstress the drivetrain and let the subaru AWD system work it's magic. I guess if the average driver drives like a grandma in Sunny Dry New Mexico they are ok but then again how many grandmas in New Mexico are buying Legacy GT's. Im dumping these peices of sheet very soon. I just bought a nice set of snows for the winter and will be purchacing real tires as a replacement real soon.

I once had a long long discussion with our regional Subaru Canada technical director and asked him the question, why do they deliver the cars on RE-92s. he told me the primary reason is to obtian better epa gas milage as this tire is much harder. That was it he says that many many NA consumers shop with the epa gas milage as one of the top criteria. Anyone believe this?

Does anyone know if offering a tire upgrade OPTION would effect the calculated mileage? Wouldn't the mileage be based on the standard tire? So why not offer an upgrade option? Subaru and dealers would make a bit more money and folks like us would be happier.

I have come to the conclusion that the OEM Potenza's on cars suck. RE040 on the Rx-8.....absolutely horrible tire. The RE92....ehh, but still sucks. Both have a tread rating of like 180. Both could make your a$$ pucker if you hit a puddle. The only Potenza that I know of that is good is the S-03.

nicd, that holds water somewhat and makes sense from an mfg perspective. If it helps them get an extra .1 or .2mpg it looks good in the books. I would also suspect they're getting a screaming deal on them. The only decent Potenza's from what I hear are 050's. The 070 is supposed to be okay, but for the money, there is still a lot more out there.

Anybody can believe what they wish. But I drove on a set of RE92s on my past Legacy GT for three years, through rain and winters, with no drama. And I'm a spirited driver, I believe some would say. :lol: People have been scapegoating the RE92s for years now. I had them on the Legacy for a week or so, before I got the Dunlop 9000s mounted up, and had no complaints, running them at 37 psi. In the rain and snow, be careful. Period. As a matter of fact, be careful in general. The traction characteristic of the RE92 is such that it will howl before it lets go. And the tire's limits in the dry are such that if it does let go, circumspection might have been in order. As I have said, they aren't the best tire in the rain and snow, but I find ALL all-season tires deficient in the rain and snow. Dunlop 5000s are quite good, as is an "all-weather" tire (really a snow tire with aspirations) such as the Nokian WR. But if you crashed, you crashed. The tire didn't do it. If the RE92s were as bad as people say they are, there would be wrecked Subarus littering the nation's highways and byways. But this just isn't so. Next time you see a WRX, have a look at the wheels and tires. Chances are, you'll see RE92s. And the car is staying on the road and everything. :lol: Kevin

Im not saying that the tire dosent work. It works. But everything is relative. Compared to almost everything else they suck big time. Im not trying to blame the accident on the tire. Accidents are most usually driver error. I accept that. However the comparison I am trying to make is that the diffrence between a good tire and a bad tire is that a good tire will allow you to respond predictably in an unexpected situation whereas a bad tire will just let you go. Yes they howel in long sweeping turns. But do a quick evasive manuver you will see the rear end getting real squirly real fast. My friend's wrx with real tires never displayed these characteristics. It stayed planted in situations where my RE-92 equiped WRX would have spun me like a top. Its all relative...

I'm an enthusiast, and drive very spirited. I also live in Florida where we have received of 18" of rain in last month alone. I've had no problems, period. The RE92's are an adequate tire and I agree completely with Kevin's initial post. Mine won't be changed until they wear out...when they do well out I certainly won't be reinstalling new RE92's, but anyone who blames the tires for their "troubles" is just hiding behind the fact that they drove beyond their own limits...well before they past the tires limits. And as far as dealers offering an optional tire upgrade, most dealers would have no problem selling you another tire and installing it for you. [img]http://www.subaruchallenge.com/Wills/re92poster.jpg[/img]