Duty C Solenoid or Clutch Pack Failure

Symptoms:

1. Torque binding when turning

2. Lower than normal fuel economy

3. Lurching when I shut off the engine

 

Diagnostic Procedure:

1. I installed the 4EAT differential lock switch, and the switch does nothing. That was pretty frustrating.

2. I installed the FWD fuse to test, the light showed up on the dash, I drove in tight circles, and I still got torque binding.

 

Unexplained:

1. The AT OIL TEMP light does not flash or remain on.

 

My Questions:

1. Is my diagnosis of a failed Duty C Solenoid correct?

2. What would a DIY repair job of the solenoid and clutch pack entail in terms of parts, cost, and time? What would a dealer charge?

3. What is the time-frame, probability, and mechanic result of failure of the clutch pack?

if the AT Temp light is not flashing at start up, then it is not the duty c. but if the fuse in does not relieve the binding, then it is the duty c. the solenoid disconnects the rear wheels. so this is an odd one.

 

i was all set to tell you about replacing the transfer clutch plates, but the duty c, with the fuse in, should eliminate the binding if it is working.

 

so , matbe more info. maybe check the fluid in the trans and replace it , drain and fill, maybe jack up the rear and turn the wheels by hand looking and listening for something wrong, maybe a rear wheel bearing, or the diff.

 

and last but not least maybe the TCU , trans computer. they can go bad. it is not common but since nothing about this fits the normal symptoms maybe the TCU.

one report has ''scorched'' or burn marks on the circuit board. another has no sign of trouble but an intermittent binding.

 

did you install the lock up switch before you tried the fuse? i would eliminate the switch, it can not help in this situation. the switch is intended to lock the drive line in 4wd for really bad road conditions like snow or for off road use. if you messed up the switch it may be part of the problem. maybe you switched the wrong wire.?

 

did you put any resistors in with the switch wiring?

 

tires all match, brand, tread, size, inflation.?

 

more info please.

 

first, drain and fill 3 times with driving and shifting in between.

 

97? gt? auto trans? how many miles?

if the AT Temp light is not flashing at start up, then it is not the duty c. but if the fuse in does not relieve the binding, then it is the duty c. the solenoid disconnects the rear wheels. so this is an odd one.

 

i was all set to tell you about replacing the transfer clutch plates, but the duty c, with the fuse in, should eliminate the binding if it is working.

 

so , matbe more info. maybe check the fluid in the trans and replace it , drain and fill, maybe jack up the rear and turn the wheels by hand looking and listening for something wrong, maybe a rear wheel bearing, or the diff.

 

and last but not least maybe the TCU , trans computer. they can go bad. it is not common but since nothing about this fits the normal symptoms maybe the TCU.

one report has ''scorched'' or burn marks on the circuit board. another has no sign of trouble but an intermittent binding.

 

did you install the lock up switch before you tried the fuse? i would eliminate the switch, it can not help in this situation. the switch is intended to lock the drive line in 4wd for really bad road conditions like snow or for off road use. if you messed up the switch it may be part of the problem. maybe you switched the wrong wire.?

 

did you put any resistors in with the switch wiring?

 

tires all match, brand, tread, size, inflation.?

 

more info please.

 

first, drain and fill 3 times with driving and shifting in between.

 

97? gt? auto trans? how many miles?

 

1. I tripled checked my wiring of the switch with a voltmeter. When the switch is in position 1, the voltage travels uninterrupted through the switch from the TCU to the Duty C with a range of .15-11V. I check the FSM and used the wire from pin 3 on the B55 connector. Before I cut it, I checked that the voltage is .15V for WOT in 1st gear and 11V with the FWD fuse installed. The car also had torque binding before I installed the switch. I believe this eliminates the switch and the scorched TCU possibility.

2. The tires are all the same size, make, and model. They are all properly inflated 32 in the front, 30 in the rear. They have mostly even wear. I haven't been able to rotate them properly because I have two dented rims in the rear. But regardless, shouldn't the installed FWD fuse temporarily eliminate the torque bind?

3. About 500 miles ago, I drained about 7/8 quarts of the ATF, replaced the filter, and replaced the fluid with Mobil1 Synthetic ATF in hopes the synthetic ATF would do the best at cleaning it out. That was probably the first time the fluid has been changed for the life of the car. It was in ok condition, with no large metal pieces or excessive metal filings. Since this, the torque bind has gotten better.

4. It is a Legacy GT 4EAT with 168,000 miles.

Thanks for the ideas.

 

I have thus come to the conclusion that the problem resides with a stuck transfer valve. The solenoid isn't broken because otherwise it would have a flashing AT OIL TEMP light at startup. The transfer valve is probably clogged with gunk because the ATF Fluid had never been changed before.

My course of action now is to replace the transfer valve and the solenoid (I believe they come together), and replace the clutch pack. I have had this binding problem for about 5,000+ miles, so I'd imagine I killed the clutch pack by now.

Update:

I took it to Subaru of Pueblo to get the transfer valve assembly and clutch pack replaced. I don't have the experience or time to do it myself, because I am going to school right now. The stealership quoted me at $900 over the phone, so I dropped it off. Then they called up the next day and quoted me at $1,800. I said no way, came back, and picked it up. From what I have seen, that it way too high.

I threw in some SeaFoam TransClean in hopes of freeing up the transfer valve, but no luck. My shifts are much smoother, but I still have torque bind.

Does anyone know a reputable dealer, shop, or friend in the Colorado Springs area with experience who would be able to replace the transfer valve assembly and clutch packs for a reasonable price?

stealership was ripping you off, parts are about $90-$100 for the valve and ~$160 for the clutch pack, though you may have damaged the clutch hub which is part of the output shaft and would require replacement of that. but i can't imagine it costing that much.

i know a guy in colorado springs on a different forum. send me an pm with your email and i will forward it to him. he is very good, and knows his stuff. i do not know if he will work on your car. but it does not hurt to ask.

 

if you want to look for him he is lmdew on the www.ultimatesubaru.org forum. you may have to register to contact him. and new members can't receive private messages right away.

I have received allot of mixed information, a local dealership said I needed a new clutch pack and solenoid with accessories, I didn't like there $700 in labor and $400 in parts so I decided to go to someone I knew and would like to give money to at a more reasonable rate. just when I chose a place to buy my parts http://www.subaruparts.com told me I needed to measure the original plate so they could order me the appropriate part but they were about $150 cheaper than my local dealership. subaru of america after 3 phone calls told me that the original equipment size for my car is 3.3mm subaru parts.com said that they would put in a 3.7 while the local dealership said they would put in a 3.3 without measuring. in addition subaruparts.com told me a failing clutch pack can cause the solenoid to fail. furthermore according to SOA if I get a clutch pack thats to small I will damage my solenoid and not have awd. if I get a larger one I will have torque bind and might damage the trans....

 

my car feels fine and only throws a tcu code 24 after long drives at freeway speeds. in the dirt it feels good like I'm getting at least some power to the rear. anyone had similar issues, what was the outcome? any help or advice appreciated.

Hmm, tough one, If the OE size was 3.3 I would probably stick with that. From what I have seen, SOA loves to sell solenoids. Honestly, as long as the electromagnet in the solenoid functions, and the valve moves freely, there shouldn't be an issue. Don't see how a failed clutch could damage it either, the fluid going through it is the same filtered fluid the rest of the trans gets. My only conclusion is that due to the somewhat above normal rate of TCV failure the dealers like to replace the TCV as a preventative measure against comebacks any time they open the back of the trans up. That too small a clutch could cause no AWD makes partial sense, but again, you can rarely go wrong putting the OE size back in. and larger would be more likely to damage the transmission then smaller. It is also possible your clutch pack is ok and can be reused, but for ~$160 it is a bit of cheap insurance since opening the back of the trans up is not fun or really that easy (I have done it several times) so, best to do it once and be done with it.

here is where it gets confusing there are oem sizes ranging from 3.3 into 4.something. they are for different 4eat's like forester.... the part number for this pressure plate set is 31523aa410. subaru parts.com said that due to ware I might need a larger one yada yada I'm sticking with the 3.3 but keep in mind it took me 3 callbacks from subaru of america asking questions so they could ask their parts department questions and give me the info I desired. I know how much of an expletive it is to get in there dropping the drive shaft then properly supporting the trans.... thats why I'm paying a shop with a lift to help me out with getting the car over our heads, I might learn something rather than get pissed off in a small space rofl

 

 

is the valve or (TCV) a separate part from the duty c solenoid? do you know the technical name or part number? all I get when googling is turbo control.... or other non related items.

Hello All- I am hoping someone can me help me source parts for the same subject replacement: Clutch Pack/Duty C Solenoid.

 

Legacy has been sitting with a 16 flashing AT light for over a year: I have again decided to look at it Ran self diagnostic with the black connectors: got fault codes 33-speed-sensor, 24- Idle Air controll valve 31 Throttle position sensor & knock sensor: I Ran Sea-foam flush through the throttle body: cleared codes, ran self Diag. again. Car now signals code 24- IAC Valve and 16 flashes of the AT light at start-up..

 

From my research and your helpful posts it seem I will be seeking the following:

 

Clutch Pack

Duty C

IAV valve.

 

 

Vehicle specs:

1997 Subaru Legacy: 2.0 JDM (Dual Turbo)

Heavy Industries LTD

E-BDS

VIN# BDS-029458

Aplied Model BDSC48P

Option Code: AHC

Trim Code: 710

Engine Type: EJ20

Color Code: 51E

Transmission Type: TZ102YBDBA

 

Does someone know of an online source for parts for a 2.0 Subaru, any help would be most appreciated.

 

Regards::

Hello All- I am hoping someone can me help me source parts for the same subject replacement: Clutch Pack/Duty C Solenoid.

 

Legacy has been sitting with a 16 flashing AT light for over a year: I have again decided to look at it Ran self diagnostic with the black connectors: got fault codes 33-speed-sensor, 24- Idle Air controll valve 31 Throttle position sensor & knock sensor: I Ran Sea-foam flush through the throttle body: cleared codes, ran self Diag. again. Car now signals code 24- IAC Valve and 16 flashes of the AT light at start-up..

 

From my research and your helpful posts it seem I will be seeking the following:

 

Clutch Pack

Duty C

IAV valve.

 

 

Vehicle specs:

1997 Subaru Legacy: 2.0 JDM (Dual Turbo)

Heavy Industries LTD

E-BDS

VIN# BDS-029458

Aplied Model BDSC48P

Option Code: AHC

Trim Code: 710

Engine Type: EJ20

Color Code: 51E

Transmission Type: TZ102YBDBA

 

Does someone know of an online source for parts for a 2.0 Subaru, any help would be most appreciated.

 

Regards::

 

If you are in the US, use Car-Part.com

well my first question would be "why did you put synthetic atf in it?" does it have synthetic in it already? did whoever switched it to synthetic flush it correctly? the effects of mixing synthetic and conventional oils are REALLY bad, not minorly bad, REALLY BAD.

well my first question would be "why did you put synthetic atf in it?" does it have synthetic in it already? did whoever switched it to synthetic flush it correctly? the effects of mixing synthetic and conventional oils are REALLY bad, not minorly bad, REALLY BAD.

 

Holy thread resurrection batman!

 

I put synthetic ATF in the car because I was attempting to free up the Duty C solenoid by any means necessary so as to not have to take apart the transmission to replace it.

And no, mixing synthetic and conventional is not always really bad.

the effects of mixing synthetic and conventional oils are REALLY bad, not minorly bad, REALLY BAD.

 

You're in the wrong thread...

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/am-thinking-driving-my-car-good-ideai-108079.html

wait... im batman?!? COOOOOL I don't look at the dates they were posted, I found this thread looking for help for another forum member with same kind of issues. now, to mr. mustang man, I did like the blinker fluid from amazon, worked very well in my car. awesome mustang tricks

im just trying to get clarification for my problem. he pulled up this thread ,, but this is the one I was reading in the first place.. It's confusing.

 

Do I have a bad duty c solenoid or not?

 

96 legacy, torque bind issue.

with fwd fuse inserted the problem goes away.

on the first page "johnegg" posted that if the fuse IN stops the binding, then it IS the duty c solenoid that's the problem.

if the AT Temp light is not flashing at start up, then it is not the duty c. but if the fuse in does not relieve the binding, then it is the duty c. the solenoid disconnects the rear wheels. so this is an odd one.

 

i was all set to tell you about replacing the transfer clutch plates, but the duty c, with the fuse in, should eliminate the binding if it is working.

 

this is what he said,, this is why i am confused..

in my case with the fuse in,,, the problem is eliminated.

then the duty c is working.

 

try a drain and fill 3 times with driving in between.

then the duty c is working.

 

try a drain and fill 3 times with driving in between.

 

That's what im doing next, I have it all up on jacks.. going to change the trans filter and change fluid. Not flush it.

 

If that doesn't work, my plan is to swap the TCM from a 95 legacy parts car. Gotta find the module first,, cant find my hanes manual!

going to change the trans filter and change fluid.

there is no filter to change, just a screen.

if the screen is clogged, metal chunks, then the trans is bad.

so it is not worth the time or trouble to drop the pan.

plus, sometimes they leak after opening.

 

my plan is to swap the TCM from a 95 legacy parts car

it is pretty rare for the TCM to cause binding, but it has happened.

look for scorch marks on the circuit board.

 

but i'm betting new fluid will take care of it.