Cam Sprocket Torque Specs

Any lock tite on the threads ? may be that's why they come out hard.

IMO 22ftlbs seems about right for that size bolt.

I didn't remove any bolts yet since timing belt is still on, plus I only broke loose passenger intake bolt only, exhaust is what broke two of my 1/2" to 3/8" adapters . Gotta see if I can find a 10mm allen socket with 1/2" drive.

Also FSM didn't say anything about locktite, guess I'll see for sure once I remove them.

It's 22 ft lbs plus 45 degrees.

DO NOT USE LOC-TITE!!!

It's 22 ft lbs plus 45 degrees.

 

DO NOT USE LOC-TITE!!!

Yes, so that would probably equal to what 40ft-lbs tops? I can brake loose 40ft-lbs bolts with my bear hands , mine are definitely in the 100+ range, I am using a 5 foot 1/2" breaker bar that is able to break loose axle nuts easily.

I would venture to say its closer to 70 ft lbs, look at the size of the washer flange on that bolt. There is a lot of surface tension holding that bolt in place. I bet there is over 100+ FT LBS break away torque due to the size of the washer. Trust me, you're not the only one who has trouble getting them off. I have had to cut one or two off over the years.

They never should have made those as ALLEN HEX SOCKET head bolts.

I would venture to say its closer to 70 ft lbs, look at the size of the washer flange on that bolt. There is a lot of surface tension holding that bolt in place. I bet there is over 100+ FT LBS break away torque due to the size of the washer. Trust me, you're not the only one who has trouble getting them off. I have had to cut one or two off over the years.

 

They never should have made those as hex head bolts.

Did you mean to say socket head cap screws ?

I think you meant to say, they should have made them hex head bolts.

Yes, those bolts are horrible. They go on fairly easily and do NOT want to come back off!

I bought this stout little guy for removing (or installing). That, plus a 1/2" craftsman ratchet, a 5 foot pipe, and they come off pretty easily.

Also I always install new bolts from the dealer, because the allen head does start to distort a little with each install. When they strip, it's no fun (lots of careful drilling involved).

Yes, those bolts are horrible. They go on fairly easily and do NOT want to come back off!

 

I bought this stout little guy for removing (or installing). That, plus a 1/2" craftsman ratchet, a 5 foot pipe, and they come off pretty easily.

 

Also I always install new bolts from the dealer, because the allen head does start to distort a little with each install. When they strip, it's no fun (lots of careful drilling involved).

I just tried to find a 1/2" 10mm Allen socket locally, no dice. I did buy Kobalt and Craftsman 1/2" to 3/8" drive adapters, this way if they break free replacements at least.

How much are the bolts at Subaru usually? Wonder if there is a hex cap upgrade instead of these.

EDIT: Amazon has a gear wrench one for $10: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-80660-2-Inch-Drive-Socket/dp/B002YKLA8U]GearWrench 80660 1/2-Inch Drive Hex Bit Socket 10mm - Amazon.com[/ame]

did you mean to say socket head cap screws ?

 

I think you meant to say, they should have made them hex head bolts.

fixed

I just tried to find a 1/2" 10mm Allen socket locally, no dice. I did buy Kobalt and Craftsman 1/2" to 3/8" drive adapters, this way if they break free replacements at least.

 

How much are the bolts at Subaru usually? Wonder if there is a hex cap upgrade instead of these.

 

EDIT: Amazon has a gear wrench one for $10: GearWrench 80660 1/2-Inch Drive Hex Bit Socket 10mm - Amazon.com

I use a Snap On 1/2 to 3/8 impact adapter.

https://www.google.com/search?q=apex+aph35m&hl=en&biw=&bih=&gbv=2&oq=apex+aph35m&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...34101.45208.0.45801.12.10.0.2.0.0.250.875.1j3j1.5.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..8.4.781.KHamoXvcaT4

I order bits from Apex for work. We use there 5/16 hex bits to take apart the frame on a item we build for submarines. All other hex bits won't stand up to more then a few of the counter sunk screws.

I order from Cooper Hand Tools.

Alright was able to break loose the driver side intake cam bolt. Both exhaust bolts are stuck though. I tried to heat them carefully (stupid plastic cam gears!), still no dice, broke another adapter though.

I checked the torque rating with my 1/2" 150lbs torque wrench, both of the exhaust bolts are torqued above 150ft-lbs! What are the odds that they are reverse thread bolts?

Now I'm waiting for the 1/2" drive 10mm hex bit, tired of breaking the adapters (and 3/8" hex bits)

Not chewed up yet, but it is starting to eat away the threads. With 1/2" hex bit I should be able to get my impact wrench in there, but am afraid that it might chew the bolts more.

Tis my luck this week dealing nothing but stuck bolts/nuts, earlier I had to fight with coilovers that I just got, the lock nuts were over tigthened and super stuck, I still can't get the perches moved (either oxydation/rust or glue!). Now the cam sprocket bolts....

I just used a harbor freight 3/8in. hex socket with a 1/2-3/8 impact adapter and 1/2 in breaker bar. Three of the bolts eventually came off with some extra effort and the socket and adapter seemed to hold up fine. The last exhaust cam bolt was stuck and began to strip out.

Not chewed up yet, but it is starting to eat away the threads. With 1/2" hex bit I should be able to get my impact wrench in there, but am afraid that it might chew the bolts more.

I drilled the stripped bolt with a 21/64 drill bit using the method described in post 5 here on the nasioc forums and it came out effortlessly with the a few taps from the impact gun.

It's 22 ft lbs plus 45 degrees.

 

DO NOT USE LOC-TITE!!!

Yes, so that would probably equal to what 40ft-lbs tops? I can brake loose 40ft-lbs bolts with my bear hands , mine are definitely in the 100+ range, I am using a 5 foot 1/2" breaker bar that is able to break loose axle nuts easily.

I would venture to say its closer to 70 ft lbs, look at the size of the washer flange on that bolt. There is a lot of surface tension holding that bolt in place. I bet there is over 100+ FT LBS break away torque due to the size of the washer. Trust me, you're not the only one who has trouble getting them off. I have had to cut one or two off over the years.

 

They never should have made those as ALLEN HEX SOCKET head bolts.

A quick search, 45*= 30ft.lbs. with a 2' lever point.

http://www.ehow.com/how_7495906_convert-torque-force.html

52ft.lbs should be the torque, but those bolts seem to be a hell a lot tighter then that.

Mike

Finally got them all off, I couldn't get the driver side exhaust one off, completely stripped. Not enough room to drill it out (tried it with even a 90* drill adapter). The way I finally got it off is by using a cut off wheel on my drill, then finishing it off with my dremel. I quartered the bolt, and once I got one quarter off the bolt spun free easily.

When installing it back I torqued the bolts to 22ft-lbs, then I made marks on the bolt and cam gear with a sharpie. At that point I took my 1/2" torque wrench and measured the torque spends to spin the bolt another 45*. Intake bolts punched out at 70ft-lbs, exhaust bolts were over 100ft-lbs! For what ever reason intake bolts were easier (oil on the camshaft threads?)

After that it made sense on why exhaust bolts were harder to remove, it took much more force to spin the exhaust bolts 45*

I've had to cut out a couple over the years. Having the proper counterhold tools for those cam sprockets makes a big difference. They still take a TON of torque to remove.

I've had to heat them with an inductive heater before, had 2 that still wouldn't come out even after all that. They spin right out by hand once the head is removed tho.

Fun fact: the hex head bolts from the old EJ25D fit just fine in the exhaust cams. Haven't found a factory bolt to replace the AVCS ones tho.

That's it I'm buying hex bolts next time I take them apart. Intake vales are not hard to undo anyway.

That sounds like a good plan. Luckily as you said, the intake bolts are easier, since they have a passageway for oil in the center of the bolt, and that makes them fairly specialized.

But if the exhaust bolts can be replaced with a hex head bolt, then I wonder...

• Are they easier to remove?
  
• Does anyone have a subaru part # for future reference?
  

They will be slightly easier to remove, simply because a 1/2" drive 6 point hex socket is very common. My Nissan has a 22mm hex head bolts for the cam, it's over 100ft-lbs torqued, I break them loose with a regular 1/2" drive ratchet no problem all of the time.

+1 on Part numbers for the hexcap bolts.

If opposedforces is to be trusted, it's 800112080. If memory serves it'll be a 17mm hex. Waaaaay easier to remove as you can apply a lot more torque to it than a bolt that the tool is smaller than the diameter of the threaded part of the bolt. (bolt is 12mm thread, 10mm hex. Duuuuuumb!)

$1.66 ea. from subaruonlineparts. I think the socket head bolts are $3-5 each, so that makes it the deal of the century.

I had a bucket of old timing gears/idlers and some cam sprocket bolts and noticed the thread was the same, checked the washer diameter, it's the same. . .so thought "why not zoidberg?" when I was putting my Baja turbo back together. . . so it now has hex bolts for the exhaust cam pulleys.

I'll snap a side by side pic when I get home tonight.