The upcoming diesel engine...

I read figures of around 180 whp & 250 ft-lbs somewhere, and although mod potential is high, it will never be as much fun to drive as a GT.

I wonder what weaksauce emission system they'll tack on because of these new stupid EPA rules. But man - a little ECU tuning - 250hp and 400 lb ft torque (DROOL!!!!)

I read figures of around 180 whp & 250 ft-lbs somewhere, and although mod potential is high, it will never be as much fun to drive as a GT.

That'd probably work pretty well in a Forester, and a larger more powerful diesel in the Tribeca.

A turbo-diesel Tribeca would be awesome. 250+hp and 425+ lb ft torque. It would be a monster. I would definitely get one. I could imagine tuners programming it for 50-80 more hp and torque. Awesome!!!!

*wakes up from wet dream*

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...it will never be as much fun to drive as a GT.

Why so? No top end power? I've never driven a diesel.

Why so? No top end power? I've never driven a diesel.

We have a Vw jetta tdi and I kind of like the how the torque band max's out in the low rpm ranges. I mean check the 2007 Audi R10 TDI , its has lots of performance. Bmw's 2l and 3l tdi's are coming also for 2008. I wouldnt mind having 40mpg and now diesel is cheaper than low octane gas out here in the PNW.

Why so? No top end power? I've never driven a diesel.

Very different experience. redline is probably like 4000-4500 rpm

Expect full torque around 1400-1700 rpm and max hp around 2800-3400 rpm.

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You pay a little more for the diesel fuel, but the mileage (especially highway) is much more superior than a similar gas engine. Owners of the Jetta TDI realize a real world driving 45-48 mpg on the highway. So there are advantages of diesel. The new emissions systems the EPA has regulated diesel vehicles manufactured from January 1, 2007 and on now are as clean as current gas engine exhausts.

Diesels generally make signifcantly more torque than similar sized gas engines. They also yield better mpg. They are very different than gas engines. The significantly higher torque output would probably benefit the Forester and the Tribeca.

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With Subaru developing a CVT for the diesel, I doubt there will be much performance to be had.

Subaru will be replacing a shitload of transmissions if they mate it to a CVT.

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Subaru will be replacing a shitload of transmissions if they mate it to a CVT.

 

 

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CVT feels good in my mom's RX400h, however very very odd feeling in the PRius. Yick. Would not want one in a Subaru.

CVT feels good in my mom's RX400h, however very very odd feeling in the PRius. Yick. Would not want one in a Subaru.

The CVT on a diesel will have to deal with constant high torque loads. For a gasser, it should be fine. The RX400h only makes 212 lb ft torque at 4400rpm.

A diesel on the other hand makes its max torque very low, so it'll constantly be making it's full torque output. I can't see a CVT holding up to that. I think a conventional automatic/manual would be better suited for a diesel.

I agree, and this is why I think Subaru is getting more stupid by the day.

A CVT would be fine for the 2.5i models - low stress levels. But, I personally would be extremely weary of a turbo gas/diesel car/truck mated to a CVT transmission.

I thought they were generally cleaner than gas?

 

 

With Subaru developing a CVT for the diesel, I doubt there will be much performance to be had.

Diesel engines produce less ozone destroying carbon dioxide but more NOx and carbon particulate matter (soot). Diesel is more efficient because each gallon contains about 15% more energy than a gallon of gasoline. It should be less expensive than 87 octange gas because it is in a less refined state and requires less processing but due to a lower demand, prices remain higher than 93 octane in many areas. Also, the oil companies are d!ckwads. As car companies bring more diesel engines to america now that we have low sulfur diesel (less particulate matter), prices will start to drop drastically. look for the drop towards the end of 2007 and 2008.

Hang on.. if I read that right you are saying that once the demand increases prices will drop?

Yeah, Im not sure if thats correct.

vs. say hybrid cars, less demand = lower prices of gasoline.

I think car companies are gonna have to work hard here in the States in order to persuade Americans that diesels are not long sputtering, smelly, inefficient vehicles. Shouldn't be too hard seeing as how 26 mpg Mercedes is tough to beat. However, people like my parents are much happier buying a hybrid car. No tax credit for diesels, but there is still extra cost over a gasoline engine.

Hang on.. if I read that right you are saying that once the demand increases prices will drop?

Exactly, kind of the same idea that if you put the same engine or derivative in multiple car lines/bodies, it makes the engine cheeper to produce since the development costs are spread throughout the model line. Right now, the supply chain for diesel fuel is not designed for high volume, only to service large vehicles and the few light diesel vehicles on the road. If there is more of a market for diesel fuel, the oil companies will streamline their supply chains and since they are selling more fuel, they can sell it at a lower price and still maintain profitability.

I thought they were generally cleaner than gas?

 

 

With Subaru developing a CVT for the diesel, I doubt there will be much performance to be had.

From an emissions ppm perspective, even the best diesels are worse than gas engines. They also produce particulate emissions (soot) which really isn't the greatest thing.

Hang on.. if I read that right you are saying that once the demand increases prices will drop?

It's ECON100!

Diesel engines produce less ozone destroying carbon dioxide but more NOx and carbon particulate matter (soot). Diesel is more efficient because each gallon contains about 15% more energy than a gallon of gasoline. It should be less expensive than 87 octange gas because it is in a less refined state and requires less processing but due to a lower demand, prices remain higher than 93 octane in many areas. Also, the oil companies are d!ckwads. As car companies bring more diesel engines to america now that we have low sulfur diesel (less particulate matter), prices will start to drop drastically. look for the drop towards the end of 2007 and 2008.

Yeah, exactly. Though CO2 emissions are purely a result of how much fuel is burned. There's no technology for removing it from exhaust other than producing less exhaust.

Are there any specs of what the hp/torque rating they are seeing with it? If they could squeeze one out by summer '08 (lease ends 8/31/08). I would definitely consider it for my next car. Wondering if it'll be a massive torque monster.

The latest C&D has a test of the MB E320 Bluetec. The review will give you a good idea of what living with a modern diesel is like. All that torque sounds great on paper, and it can be nice, but it doesn't really translate to fantastic acceleration.

I've driven a number of diesels in Europe over the last 5 years. I'd really like one in something like a mid-sized crossover SUV for my wife. They're very relaxing on the highway. I don't think I'd like one for myself though.

Yeah, Im not sure if thats correct.

 

vs. say hybrid cars, less demand = lower prices of gasoline.

 

 

I think car companies are gonna have to work hard here in the States in order to persuade Americans that diesels are not long sputtering, smelly, inefficient vehicles. Shouldn't be too hard seeing as how 26 mpg Mercedes is tough to beat. However, people like my parents are much happier buying a hybrid car. No tax credit for diesels, but there is still extra cost over a gasoline engine.

The problem isn't people - the problem is the government and the EPA, which try to make it a pain in the ass for companies to sell diesels in the US.

less demand = lower prices of gasoline.

less demand = oil companies slowing down production = less supply = higher price. Oil companies keep a tight grip on pricing, it doesn't matter if there is a higher or lower demand - they'll control the amount being produced so that they keep a grip on the pricing. And god forbid someone farts in the middle east, the markets will twist and turn it in such a way that the price per barrel increase by over a dollar.

The latest C&D has a test of the MB E320 Bluetec. The review will give you a good idea of what living with a modern diesel is like. All that torque sounds great on paper, and it can be nice, but it doesn't really translate to fantastic acceleration.

 

I've driven a number of diesels in Europe over the last 5 years. I'd really like one in something like a mid-sized crossover SUV for my wife. They're very relaxing on the highway. I don't think I'd like one for myself though.

MB is planning on making the bluetec diesel available in other cars such as the ML, GL, etc. for 2008 and I believe that BMW is also planning on bringing their diesels over. Jeep will have the Grand Cherokee with their 3.0L CDi next year, which I think is very similar to the engine in the E320. I agree that diesels are much better suited for mid sized and full sized trucks, SUVs, and crossovers both for their improved milage and torque for towing. I find it amazing that you can get almost the same highway milage in a Tuareg V10 TDi as you can in an auto Legacy Gt.

The problem isn't people - the problem is the government and the EPA, which try to make it a pain in the ass for companies to sell diesels in the US.

It is not federal gov that makes it hard. It is CARB, California's goverment agency.

Krzys

It is not federal gov that makes it hard. It is CARB, California's goverment agency.

 

Krzys

Yes, CARB is the reason why the only diesel sold in the USA in 2007 is the E320 bluetec. Because of its particulate soot trap, it meets the more stringent emissions regulations placed on diesels. CARB has long been a test bed for new pollution controls and will continue to do so. They are now working on legislation that enables state governments to sue oil and automobile companies for creating inefficient and heavily polluting vehicles but the last time they tried to run it through, it was struck down.