Riddle me this? Coilover question

New to the forums and Subaru. I have built my fair share of hondas and decided to finally step up to a real car.

 

I bought a 97 BK this week and one of my top orders of business is helping the stance out a bit and giving it some much needed handling upgrades. I started searching for just lowering springs and saw that the gen2 market is pretty slim and after crawling under my car saw the poor shape that my suspension is in I decided that I may as well do coilovers. I kept looking for gen2 stuff and saw that there are only a few options on the market for adjustable ride height all starting at right around $1k. I spent some time over on sl-i and saw some posts about early US wrx and 04 sti coilovers being a direct fit so I searched for some pricing on those. Come to find out those start in the $400 to $700 range which is a little more manageable for me since I just bought this car and have a rock crawler in the garage that costs me an arm and a leg to work on.

 

Other then the obvious adjustable ride dampening on the $1k coilovers, what is the downside to just saving myself $500 bucks and putting the wrx coilovers in? They have a much bigger tuning market so there are def more manufactures out there to shop around for. Am I looking at this all wrong and being cheap or will be the wrx ones work just fine but give me a slightly stiffer ride ( I can deal with stiff, my jeep rides like a rock). Also what is the difference between F/9kg R/7kg and F/8kg R/6kg spring rates and which would be better for 95% road driving?

 

Sorry for all the newbie questions. I have only had the car for 24 hours so I'm trying to pick everything up as fast as I can.

the question you want to answer for yourself first is how are you going to be driving it?

 

if its going to be a spirited DD, your coilover options are going to be far different from that of a primarily tracked car

 

if you're going for a good bang for your buck coil system for the 'spirited DD' option, the raceland ultimo for the 02-07 wrx will give a good, adjustable drop with a spring rate that is stiffer than OEM, obviously, but not too crazy that you feel every pebble

 

since you're throwing these on a wagon, you will more likely than not end up with some ass-sag.. thats because the wheel wells in the front open up wider than they do in the rear, so while the car itself may actually be level, from the outside you may notice the back appears to sit lower Paranoid Fabrications makes spacers that even it out, aesthetically.. 3/8" is the common one for wagons

 

alternatively, just raise up the rear on the coils

 

ultimos on a wagon:

the question you want to answer for yourself first is how are you going to be driving it?

 

if its going to be a spirited DD, your coilover options are going to be far different from that of a primarily tracked car

 

if you're going for a good bang for your buck coil system for the 'spirited DD' option, the raceland ultimo for the 02-07 wrx will give a good, adjustable drop with a spring rate that is stiffer than OEM, obviously, but not too crazy that you feel every pebble

 

if you're throwing these on a wagon, you will more likely than not end up with some ass-sag.. thats because the wheel wells in the front open up wider than they do in the rear, so while the car itself may actually be level, from the outside you may notice the back appears to sit lower Paranoid Fabrications makes spacers that even it out, aesthetically

 

 

 

I have seen the saggy butt spacers already. And being that the coilsovers are adjustable I could just bump up the rear a hair to level it correct?

 

And the driving with be spirited DD very much so. Maybe one or two track days a year but mostly just Colorado mountain roads and work and back. Thanks for the quick response and basically what your saying is the wrx ones will work fitment wise?

02-07 yes.

 

For what youre doing the racelands are the way to go. I plan on doing the same too.

 

I LOL'd at you saying you stepped up to a real car..

 

Welcome

^so did I after I had my fun with civics and preludes, its like going from a big wheel to supercross..the legacy wagon in stock form handles better than any wagon I ever been in..

 

Those coils will work but you will have to spin the top strut mount to line up the studs.

That I forgot^

^so did I after I had my fun with civics and preludes, its like going from a big wheel to supercross..the legacy wagon in stock form handles better than any wagon I ever been in..

 

Those coils will work but you will have to spin the top strut mount to line up the studs.

 

 

Should be easy enough correct? I think I can handle spinning a mount. Will I need to buy an alignment kit with this one as well?

You can do it by hand before or after you tighten the strut bolt to the plate, what I have done (on other cars) is put the spring compressor to show about 3 threads from the strut, lock the strut in and put the nut on the strut finger tight...mount it to the car, line the knuckle up with it and take it back to the spring compressor and finish tightening the spring perch. They are kind of easy to spin when they are fully tightened too..you could just put the assembly together and bolt it to the strut tower and with a bit of muscle twist it to meet the knuckle..to make sure use a torque wrench or impact and set it to 150 lbs and tighten the strut to the perch afterwards as the last step before your NECESSARY alignment.

You can do it by hand before or after you tighten the strut bolt to the plate, what I have done (on other cars) is put the spring compressor to show about 3 threads from the strut, lock the strut in and put the nut on the strut finger tight...mount it to the car, line the knuckle up with it and take it back to the spring compressor and finish tightening the spring perch. They are kind of easy to spin when they are fully tightened too..you could just put the assembly together and bolt it to the strut tower and with a bit of muscle twist it to meet the knuckle..to make sure use a torque wrench or impact and set it to 150 lbs and tighten the strut to the perch afterwards as the last step before your NECESSARY alignment.

 

Thanks for the quick response. Alignment is happening immediately after the install. No problems there. Torque wrenches are also happening obviously. I'm not trying to kill my car by not tightening all the bolts. Just making sure I have all my bases covered before I order them.

You bet, good luck and happy marauding!!

I'm in the same boat. Just picked up a '99 Legacy L wagon and want to upgrade the mush suspension. Its a daily so I don't want bone breaking stiffness. lol These Raceland Ultimo seem like a great deal. Almost too good to be true price wise. But since reviews seem to be positive on them, I'll prob give them a shot. With the saggy butt spacers, do I need the 02-03 Impreza ones, or 04-07?

 

I come from being an Impreza guy for years, so the Legacy is new territory. Thanks for the help!

You shouldn't need butt spacers for ADJUSTABLE coilovers...the difference between the front and back is 3/8 or 10mm, just adjust them until level or give the wagon a slight lift in the back.

I'm running raceland ultimos and I really enjoy them, if you really really want to have good comfort with adjustable dampening I would go with the Stance coilovers, but they average 1k.

Okay... Let me cover everything that's been said a bit more. I can give you more details than you'll possibly ever need.

 

You have a wagon. I had a wagon. It was a 98 GT 5MT. Is yours a GT? What trans? The wagons weight distribution is 53/47 for a MT. Almost perfectly even. Wet, 1696 lbs up front and 1504 lbs in the rear. An auto is 54/47, which is close. Either way, with the stock suspension, the car handles beautifully. It is so easy to rotate around any corner, and doesn't understeer much at all if you know how to drive it well.

 

Since you won't be auto crossing or racing the car, there is NO point whatsoever in getting any coilover kit that costs more than $500. This is why everyone is suggesting the Raceland Ultimo kit. It costs $500.

 

The coils linked below, are the same ones that Zeus linked you to. Get these if you go the coil route. Anyone I know who has ever had these coils, completely loves them.

 

http://www.racelandus.com/coilovers/subaru-coilover-kits/subaru-impreza-wrx-gd-ultimo-coilovers.html

 

 

Now, to answer your question...

 

Also what is the difference between F/9kg R/7kg and F/8kg R/6kg spring rates and which would be better for 95% road driving?

 

Those numbers aren't too bad for street driving on a non-track/non-racing coilover, ESPECIALLY if you want to upgrade your sway bars. Which... You will. The Ultimo's are tuned differently. They have a dampening and rebound optimized for sporty comfort with not too high spring rates. So, they give you a lot of performance with decent comfort levels.

 

Now, those numbers are the spring rates. Roughly, and respectfully, they are 504/392 lbs/in and 448/336 lbs/in.

 

The Ultimo's max rating is 505/315 lbs/in Which is about 9/5.5 kg

 

Your stock wagon spring rates are 132/190 lbs per inch. Stock sedan spring rates are 132/132 lbs/in. Why? There is up to around 200 extra pounds over the rear tires because of the extra wagon body/sheet metal. The extra 58 lbs/in keeps the rear from sagging.

 

 

Now, this is where I get to the bit about sagging....

 

The ONLY reason a Legacy will sag is when the spring rate is too low and/or the spring is shorter. Both are the case when someone installs a set from a WRX into a Legacy, with the wagon being affected the most for obvious reasons, and is usually what most people swap onto their cars.

 

If you go with height adjustable coils, even with a wagon, you shouldn't have a need for spacers. If you do, a 1/4" spacers should be just fine.

 

 

As far as an alignment, definitely get some camber bolts. And remember, the lower you go with the height... The bouncier the ride is.

 

 

Your next upgrade should be sway bars, end links, and mounts. And then go with 17" wheels and tires.

Okay... Let me cover everything that's been said a bit more. I can give you more details than you'll possibly ever need.

 

You have a wagon. I had a wagon. It was a 98 GT 5MT. Is yours a GT? What trans? The wagons weight distribution is 53/47 for a MT. Almost perfectly even. Wet, 1696 lbs up front and 1504 lbs in the rear. An auto is 54/47, which is close. Either way, with the stock suspension, the car handles beautifully. It is so easy to rotate around any corner, and doesn't understeer much at all if you know how to drive it well.

 

Since you won't be auto crossing or racing the car, there is NO point whatsoever in getting any coilover kit that costs more than $500. This is why everyone is suggesting the Raceland Ultimo kit. It costs $500.

 

The coils linked below, are the same ones that Zeus linked you to. Get these if you go the coil route. Anyone I know who has ever had these coils, completely loves them.

 

http://www.racelandus.com/coilovers/subaru-coilover-kits/subaru-impreza-wrx-gd-ultimo-coilovers.html

 

 

Now, to answer your question...

 

 

 

Those numbers aren't too bad for street driving on a non-track/non-racing coilover, ESPECIALLY if you want to upgrade your sway bars. Which... You will. The Ultimo's are tuned differently. They have a dampening and rebound optimized for sporty comfort with not too high spring rates. So, they give you a lot of performance with decent comfort levels.

 

Now, those numbers are the spring rates. Roughly, and respectfully, they are 504/392 lbs/in and 448/336 lbs/in.

 

The Ultimo's max rating is 505/315 lbs/in Which is about 9/5.5 kg

 

Your stock wagon spring rates are 132/190 lbs per inch. Stock sedan spring rates are 132/132 lbs/in. Why? There is up to around 200 extra pounds over the rear tires because of the extra wagon body/sheet metal. The extra 58 lbs/in keeps the rear from sagging.

 

 

Now, this is where I get to the bit about sagging....

 

The ONLY reason a Legacy will sag is when the spring rate is too low and/or the spring is shorter. Both are the case when someone installs a set from a WRX into a Legacy, with the wagon being affected the most for obvious reasons, and is usually what most people swap onto their cars.

 

If you go with height adjustable coils, even with a wagon, you shouldn't have a need for spacers. If you do, a 1/4" spacers should be just fine.

 

 

As far as an alignment, definitely get some camber bolts. And remember, the lower you go with the height... The bouncier the ride is.

 

 

Your next upgrade should be sway bars, end links, and mounts. And then go with 17" wheels and tires.

 

 

Those were all the exact answers I needed. Thank you for all the help on that. Waiting on my bike to sell right now so I can start on the suspension and wheel setup.

I'm glad I could help. And good luck on the selling of your bike.

Pulled the trigger on the ultimos and I picked up as set of wrx wheels over the weekend. Next question, what camber bolts do I want to put in the rear. I'm looking at the 14mm but I'm seeing mixed reviews online with people saying that those are too small and fail easy. What set should I be ordering for the rear. Ultimos have camber plates up front so I just need a good set of rears that aren't going to break on me.

Post back if you find out what camber bolts, I am doing almost this same procedure to my 1990 Legacy Wagon and I would be very interested to know... And maybe some pics and or details once you are done? Before and after pics? Post if you figure out any gotchyas.

 

I know there are a megatonne of write-ups about lowering the wagons, but the more the merrier write? Actually i'm still looking for a post that lays it all out, beginning to end - n00b style - for lowering this 1990 wagon.

 

Anyhow good luck lowering.

 

Cheers

Post back if you find out what camber bolts, I am doing almost this same procedure to my 1990 Legacy Wagon and I would be very interested to know... And maybe some pics and or details once you are done? Before and after pics? Post if you figure out any gotchyas.

 

I know there are a megatonne of write-ups about lowering the wagons, but the more the merrier write? Actually i'm still looking for a post that lays it all out, beginning to end - n00b style - for lowering this 1990 wagon.

 

Anyhow good luck lowering.

 

Cheers

 

Alright, I'll throw a little something together. I don't have pictures for and entire writeup but I have enough to get an idea of how it will mostly all go together for coils. And I still need to get an alignment so i'm not sure how out of spec everything is right now. But ultimos are in and the car handles much better now. The job took longer then I expected but that had a lot to do with accidentally going way too low up front when I installed them and trying to get the brake cables off the back factory struts without disconnecting them. I ended up using a hack saw to cut the brackets from the factory so I wouldn't have to re bleed the system. Here are what I have for pictures.

 

And I forgot to take a good before picture. So I'm using one from before I got my wrx wheels on.

 

Before

 

After

I'm probably going to go a little lower but I haven't made up my mind yet.

 

And here is what I have for pictures during the install.

Front. Remove nuts for top hats.

 

Opposite side dropped down

 

I put a couple black marks on the top bolt in reference to where it was sitting so that when I put everything back together I can get it close to where is was before. This really doesn't matter that much since you should be getting an alignment right after but I did it anyway.

Two nuts on the bottom of the mount hold everything on. And those sucks are tight. So get a nice long breaker bar.

 

This was the brake cable mount up front. Since ultimos come with new cable brackets I just bent it with a long screw driver to get the cables out. (The rear mounts will have to be cut if you want to do the same thing back there)

 

Rubber mallet will come in handy to knock the bolts out on the bottom mounts. Then the stock strut should pop right out.

 

Before and after

 

New coils mounted back in on top

 

Then you have this. Use a jack under the control arm to push it up to get it high enough to put your bolts back in to the new control arms.

 

Like so.

 

Thats all I have for pictures on the install. Its enough to get an idea on whats going on. Its basically the same for the other 3 corners.

 

And here are a few now pics. I also did the home depot lip kit on it. Nothing special but it does the job for now.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and I found this little gem on Sunday when I was downtown Denver.

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to do this. How does it ride ??!! I am sooo close to pulling the trigger on the ultimos but I am just wondering could you say it was still a comfortable highway car? Also, and very important, what camber bolts did you end up going with in the rear? Anyhow thanks again for posting all that, it helps me - and all of us noobs - a great deal. Hopefully by the end of this summer I will have the money to buy the parts and git 'er done over the winter.

 

Cheers!

pffft no, the ultimos ride is harsh as ****

 

give them 30k and youre bouncing off everything... but i suppose highway driving is decent

Alright, I'll throw a little something together. I don't have pictures for and entire writeup but I have enough to get an idea of how it will mostly all go together for coils. And I still need to get an alignment so i'm not sure how out of spec everything is right now. But ultimos are in and the car handles much better now. The job took longer then I expected but that had a lot to do with accidentally going way too low up front when I installed them and trying to get the brake cables off the back factory struts without disconnecting them. I ended up using a hack saw to cut the brackets from the factory so I wouldn't have to re bleed the system. Here are what I have for pictures.

 

And I forgot to take a good before picture. So I'm using one from before I got my wrx wheels on.

 

Before

 

After

I'm probably going to go a little lower but I haven't made up my mind yet.

 

And here is what I have for pictures during the install.

Front. Remove nuts for top hats.

 

Opposite side dropped down

 

I put a couple black marks on the top bolt in reference to where it was sitting so that when I put everything back together I can get it close to where is was before. This really doesn't matter that much since you should be getting an alignment right after but I did it anyway.

Two nuts on the bottom of the mount hold everything on. And those sucks are tight. So get a nice long breaker bar.

 

This was the brake cable mount up front. Since ultimos come with new cable brackets I just bent it with a long screw driver to get the cables out. (The rear mounts will have to be cut if you want to do the same thing back there)

 

Rubber mallet will come in handy to knock the bolts out on the bottom mounts. Then the stock strut should pop right out.

 

Before and after

 

New coils mounted back in on top

 

Then you have this. Use a jack under the control arm to push it up to get it high enough to put your bolts back in to the new control arms.

 

Like so.

 

Thats all I have for pictures on the install. Its enough to get an idea on whats going on. Its basically the same for the other 3 corners.

 

And here are a few now pics. I also did the home depot lip kit on it. Nothing special but it does the job for now.

 

 

 

Thanks for this writeup!

did you measure yours before putting them in? its a crap shoot so far for mine, i put the rears in and it was almost the stock height when i put it on the ground, even tho the overall length was about 2" shorter than the stock set up. i dont want to have to redo them a ton of times to get close to the height i want. but i know ill have to.

did you measure yours before putting them in? its a crap shoot so far for mine, i put the rears in and it was almost the stock height when i put it on the ground, even tho the overall length was about 2" shorter than the stock set up. i dont want to have to redo them a ton of times to get close to the height i want. but i know ill have to.

 

When I put mine on I had them way too low the first time. My tires where hitting the fender liners. So I measured the distance the ride height changed per full twist and moved each coilover the amount I needed to get the ride height perfect. Haven't had to touch them since

 

Sent from my LG-D800

Also just wonted to know, did anyone figure out exactly what rear lower camber bolts to get? I got a couple of MOOG K90474 from rockauto. They seem a bit weak but maybe thats just caus the front upper camber bolts are so much beefier.

Any suggestions on what works?