Symptoms of imminent 5MT failure...?

I don't have the time I'd like to put into this post, but I wanted to get this out there for comment/advice.

I purchased my '09 LGT a year ago with around 29k miles on it (my mileage is going to be ballpark in this thread). It was stock aside from the MagnaFlow CBE. At 32k, I went to stage 2. At 35k, I went to stage 3 and during log pulls, my stock clutch started slipping. I bought & installed a CCI stage 2 clutch + LWFW and swapped over to Extra-S. Here's where the trouble starts--the OEM clutch & flywheel were both fried, with less than 36k miles and only a few thousand at upgraded power. I don't launch the car and don't abuse it, but that doesn't mean the previous owner didn't. Also, the new clutch pedal was significantly lighter, and made me realize how hard the original clutch was to disengage.

The transmission has always had sort of a "whir" to it with the clutch pedal out, even before installing the new clutch. In the past week or so, that whir has become a really noticeable rattle. Pedal in, quiet. Pedal out, marbles.

I'm starting to read the 6MT swap thread. Mainly, I'm looking to hear from others who might have had similar signs prior to a catastrophic transmission failure. How long do I have, doc? I'm too busy to deal with this crap. I'm hoping it doesn't fail before I'm prepared to do something about it.

man that sounds horrible, transmissions are $$. Why not have the tranny rebuild with stronger internals if possible from a transmission shop...? 6MT swap would be nice but very pricey.

Six vs. half-dozen...? I'm not sure how long a rebuild would take vs. a swap, given the swap parts would be ready to go in. Also, cost, I dunno... if I can source a cheap STi or Spec.B trans, would the rebuild cost really be that much lower? Reading up on it now.

Sounds like the typical TOB rattle. Did you go with the TSK3 kit, or a standard TOB? Also, the LWFW is going to pass a lot more noise the OEM DMFW would have hid. How is clutch engagement?

Standard TOB. The OEM TOB came out it bits when I swapped the clutch. I had a SMFW (09) that was hot-spotted badly when I upgraded. It's these problems, coupled with the noises I'm now hearing, that makes me think I have transmission problems.

Clutch engagement is good, consistent. The LWFW noise is easy to hear while coasting, but I hear nothing while at idle. If I could go back, I'd get a replacement SMFW and FX350 rather than the LWFW, but either way, this isn't FW noise.

If you're going to do a 5mt right, you're looking at $3k for the gearset alone. If you want a LSD, thats another $1500, plus the rebuild cost. I've been looking at a 5mt build, and BAC strongly suggested going to Andrewtech. I'm going to swap out my center differential bearings and see if that fixes my issue.

I'm starting to suspect the bearing supporting the input shaft on the transmission side. It seems like aside from the TOB, this is the bearing that would fit the description. If so, there's not much you can do short of a rebuild.

Standard TOB. The OEM TOB came out it bits when I swapped the clutch. I had a SMFW (09) that was hot-spotted badly when I upgraded. It's these problems, coupled with the noises I'm now hearing, that makes me think I have transmission problems.

 

Clutch engagement is good, consistent. The LWFW noise is easy to hear while coasting, but I hear nothing while at idle. If I could go back, I'd get a replacement SMFW and FX350 rather than the LWFW, but either way, this isn't FW noise.

If I could go back I'd do the same.. ACT HDSS and LWFW was a bad choice on my part.

I just bought a used 5mt last Saturday (from Andrewtech, from Waxiboy's 6mt swap), which I'm going to replace the center diff transfer drive bearings on and then throw it into my wagon. Then I'll change the same bearings on the one I take out, that's what prompted the purchase (common 5mt failure), and keep or resell it.

Minimize downtime and in the end if I sell the second trans it will be cheaper.

Center differential transfer drive bearing replacement:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/legacy-2-5gt-center-differential-bearing-swap-204445.html

Order bearings in first post of that thread from Heuberger Subaru (site vendor) and save 25% online purchase. Comes to about $140 I believe.

More info on the failure:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2071286

Additionally, mines had this issue since I bought it from another member (although I didn't knowingly buy it like that). The previous owner said it was making the noise since he had it (after I took a 10hr bus ride to drive it for the first time), which could have been as much as 40k miles total. Mine might be getting worse though, or I'm a typical paranoid Subaru driver, hence buying another trans.

My 5mt shifts flawlessly and holds power great with little metal on the drain plug last check 10k miles ago. It faintly sounds like gravel rolling around in the trans on throttle only.

If you're going to do a 5mt right, you're looking at $3k for the gearset alone. If you want a LSD, thats another $1500, plus the rebuild cost. I've been looking at a 5mt build, and BAC strongly suggested going to Andrewtech. I'm going to swap out my center differential bearings and see if that fixes my issue.

Did you mean 6MT up there? I pulled a lead for a 2010 STi tranny with extras that I'm hoping I can get for <$1500.

I just bought a used 5mt last Saturday (from Andrewtech, from Waxiboy's 6mt swap), which I'm going to replace the center diff transfer drive bearings on and then throw it into my wagon. Then I'll change the same bearings on the one I take out, that's what prompted the purchase (common 5mt failure), and keep or resell it.

Minimize downtime and in the end if I sell the second trans it will be cheaper.

Thanks--great info. I may contact Andrewtech. I'd probably go the same route, sans fixing the old one. I just don't think I have the time. I don't have the know-how, but that's never stopped me...

This is a classic case of TOB noise. I would replace with a TSK3 kit as soon as is convenient if I were you. My bet is the bearing you took out caused wear on the snout due to its condition, and you're probably further damaging it by running a stock TOB.

The TSK3 TOBs are not infallible, but the snout kit itself helps out a lot.

I just don't want to buy a TSK3 kit, pay for installation, only to find out I need tranny work... I wouldn't mind tackling it if I had the time to spare.

Well, would you rather pay for a TSK3 kit and install when that is most likely the fix to your problem, or would you rather pay for a full transmission rebuild or replacement when that is most likely not the issue?

...or would I rather upgrade my transmission? These are all questions I'm pondering. The key here is that I'm going to have to pay someone to do this work. I'm too busy to spend time with it. I just made an appointment at the dealer. They've been good to me, and I think they'll at least identify the problem. If it's the TOB, I'll have them put the TSK kit in. If it's not... I'll keep digging into what's needed for a swap & go from there.

This really depends a lot on everyone's individual situation. I have money in savings, but I'm very short on time. If I could buy a spare part for $XXX that would save me time in doing the job (especially in terms of downtime for the car) and I expected to be able to recoup the same amount of $XXX I would buy the spare part every time. It's a zero-sum investment if you can afford to float the money for a bit.

Said perfectly, thank you!

You're taking it to the dealer for a possible 6MT swap?

Good luck with that...

Where did I say that? I appreciate any help I can get, but if you're trying to satisfy a need to be condescending, kindly find another thread for it.

I agree with the spare transmission, as long as you get it for a good price. The difference is the amount of downtime. If you repair the transmission in the car you have to get to the point where you can remove the tail of the transmission, do the R&R, then put it back together. If you run into issues during the R&R you may be off the road waiting for parts, whereas if you fix the spare transmission then swap, its pretty straight forward. I'm not going to say its easy to swap the transmission, but to me it's worth it. I'll be going this exact same route.

Chances are its a combination of the TOB and the center diff bearings. I can say that after replacing the TOB, pilot bearing, and eventually swapping to a SMFW, I still have the same noise. There's no point in going through the TOB swap just to find out that wasn't the issue. Ideally, you should proceed as you are, fix the center diff bearings, then when you swap the tranny install the TKS3 kit.

You said you're going to bring the car to the dealer and have them diagnose. If you do that, and later decide to go ahead with a swap, you will at least have wasted the money to diagnose, and possibly will have to pay them to put everything back together. It would make a lot more sense to take the car to a shop that can do the diagnosis, the TSK3 install, AND the swap, depending on which route you would like to go.

 

I am sorry if I sounded condescending, but I don't think you're taking the right path here. My goal was to steer you away from doing something that doesn't make sense.

What I said is a few posts upward. No one needs to have it repeated, because we can all read it. I think it would be just peachy if there were a shop I could trust to do all of that work, but that's not the case, and convenience is a premium for me. If I don't mind spending the money to have the transmission buttoned back up if the TSK doesn't fix the problem--as much as you're convinced it will--then I'm going to just ask that the forum be OK with that. It's not that I'm unaware that's a possibility, it's that my options are limited.

Can you guys forgive me for spending my money how I feel like?

I agree with the spare transmission, as long as you get it for a good price. The difference is the amount of downtime. If you repair the transmission in the car you have to get to the point where you can remove the tail of the transmission, do the R&R, then put it back together. If you run into issues during the R&R you may be off the road waiting for parts, whereas if you fix the spare transmission then swap, its pretty straight forward. I'm not going to say its easy to swap the transmission, but to me it's worth it. I'll be going this exact same route.

 

Chances are its a combination of the TOB and the center diff bearings. I can say that after replacing the TOB, pilot bearing, and eventually swapping to a SMFW, I still have the same noise. There's no point in going through the TOB swap just to find out that wasn't the issue. Ideally, you should proceed as you are, fix the center diff bearings, then when you swap the tranny install the TKS3 kit.

Downtime & time put into it, precisely. I guess I'll know more at the end of the week & I'll post back here.

You have NO shops in your area that specialize in Subarus and do decent work?

Weird. Because Florida?

Have you asked around on NASIOC to see if there's any shop that anyone there recommends?

Maybe--Subarus are few & far between down here. There is one shop I've been to several times, but the quality of their last job on my car was bad enough to keep me from ever going there again. One other shop I've heard of can do it, I'm sure, but I also have zero experience with them & haven't heard enough to gain confidence.

The dealer installed my aftermarket clutch. If I were going for a tranny swap, I'd start with them for leads.

I am skeptical that the issue is the transfer shaft/center diff bearings, given the low mileage. No way to say for sure, but generally they don't start making noise until 2-3 times the mileage DeltaNu has.

Not true- the transmission I picked up this weekend has had the issue since 20k mi. The previous owner suggested it was the front diff, however since the noise is only there under acceleration and is not dependent on turning, my bet goes to the center diff bearings.

Like I said, either that, or the bearing supporting the input shaft internal to the transmission. If its that one, I will likely end up sending it to Andrewtech. I've had a lot of trustworthy people recommend Andrewtech, so I feel like it's worth the money. From what I understand, its around $800 for a rebuild without a gearset. Regardless, while the TOB may be making noise, I doubt that it is the primary issue.