Clearing up all the oil info....

damn really how do i go as long as i can without damage?

like the guy andy at r/t said wait till this one goes, but i def. wondered when it goes what kind of damage could be incurred to the rest of the engine?

im saving for the efr now so as soon as i can i will get one i mean theres only 57000mi on it every time i take off the turbo i always check and it seems to be holding up well no play in the turbine fan blade thing. {cant wait to be a real stage 3}

I posted this in the other oil thread. Oil viscosity and an oils ability to support loads are not the same thing. That was the idea back in the 1960's, but it is not valid today.

The additives used in the base oils are what makes a lot of things happen: multi-viscosity, cleaning, anti-oxidation, shear strength, load bearing, are the most common.

Every API spec change is a change in the additive package, not the base oil. High load bearing is not needed in the average modern car motor, the additive packages have been modified to reinforce shear strength instead. The reason is OHC engines require sliding on the cams and the impact loads that push rod engines experienced are greatly reduced. Shear is the oil hydrocarbon chain's ability to resist being torn apart. Load bearing film strength is the oil's ability to cushion metal to metal impact.

Turbo engines really need oxidation resistance and cleaning properties.

The low number in the viscosity, is only in use when the motor is below 140 degrees, above that and the higher number is the viscosity of the oil. Higher viscosity can be useful is extreme heat, but to see how good an oil is you must see it's oil viscosity index. That shows how stable the oil is in heat. The higher the index number the better is is in hot service.

Bottom line, use the oil recommended while under warranty, after that it doesn't matter anymore. I use a full synthetic and come summer, I'll be running Rotella T 5w-40. It's a turbo diesel oil and that service is as tough as it gets. High heat and incredible bearing loads. With 18-20:1 compression and 35 psi turbo boost, the abuse a turbo diesel oil takes is far more than a typical turbo gas motor, even modified ones.

I would say that the abuse on a gasoline engine oil is different than the abuse on a diesel engine oil. Gasoline engines revs more and can have higher temperatures. But who has seen a diesel piston melted through (except maybe in tractor pulling).

So use the right spec oil for your engine.

If "all oil with the same viscosity rating is the same" was true, then why do some people have problems with various oils?

Why is it that one engine can burn through Mobil1 yet barely consume another oil?

Because all oils are not the same.

Mike

The API specific rating is based on an additive package. The specific package is designed by the automotive manufacturers engineers. Once the additive package is approved, it is sold to EVERY oil packager and mixed in prior to packaging.

Therefore, the differences between oil brands is due to the base oil and other additives.

The base oil only has to meet the necessary API viscosity ratings and there is no limit to how good it is before the API additive package is mixed in.

Synthetic base oils are varied and some are not significantly better than a good mineral oil. There are several oil tests that show how good it is: 4 ball wear is used to indicate film strength, viscosity index shows how the stable the oil is to heat, oxidation index shows how long the oil goes before it begins to degrade from oxidation.

Bottom line, motor oil is as much marketing as it is lubrication. Under warranty always, always, always use the correct API spec lubricants. You can meet those with excellent synthetics from Amsoil, Redline and a few others, or you can meet them with the cheapest stuff with the correct API rating. Your warranty claim cannot be denied as long as the oil you choose is correct for your vehicle.

Once your warranty is done, it's up to you what you use to protect your engine. The best oils will not carry the API spec, they're racing oils and there is no such thing as a race car engine warranty.

If you want oil for extreme conditions it's worth to look at what the space industry uses too.

I know a dude that tested one such lubricant and they had a hard time cleaning the test equipment from it. It almost messed up the test rig permanently.

If you want oil for extreme conditions it's worth to look at what the space industry uses too.

I know a dude that tested one such lubricant and they had a hard time cleaning the test equipment from it. It almost messed up the test rig permanently.

Agreed. It was 8 degrees here in NJ last month. My power steering fluid was frozen. Imagine Alaska and Canada with the very, very extreme cold. If you left it in the crankcase, it may be frozen for 15 minutes or more which would cause severe engine damage.

Actually - it's sometimes done by the outback pilots in northern Canada and Alaska during winters with extreme cold and where no electricity is available.

I have been using Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 Full Synthetic and the OEM blue filter. Changed to this from whatever conventional oil my (former) dealership put in. Smoother starts in the winter and (I think) a smoother idle is all that I noticed. I'll try 5W40 next.

Speaking of 20W50 synthetics, I use 20W50 Mobil 1 in my Harley's V-twin. Maybe tests prove otherwise, but I'm not confident about putting that into my LGT. Just me...

I use ENEOS 5w40 with the OEM Subaru Black filter and car runs great.

I've tried most of the major brand PAO full synthetic oils and the ENEOS has the car running silky smooth and with great Fuel Economy. City around 11l/100kms, and hwy around 8l/100km. No complaints.

I have been using Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 Full Synthetic and the OEM blue filter. Changed to this from whatever conventional oil my (former) dealership put in. Smoother starts in the winter and (I think) a smoother idle is all that I noticed. I'll try 5W40 next.

 

Speaking of 20W50 synthetics, I use 20W50 Mobil 1 in my Harley's V-twin. Maybe tests prove otherwise, but I'm not confident about putting that into my LGT. Just me...

May be it's just me...but...I would not put 20w50 in my Subaru 2.5 engine. I do like the Eneos 5w40 idea in the warmer months.

Look for the tests of any oil you are considering. The key test for heat breakdown is called the viscosity index. The higher the number the better it resists thinning in heat.

can you provide a quick and dirty way of reading/understanding these tests? and where to find a test carried out by a credible/unbiased entity?

can you provide a quick and dirty way of reading/understanding these tests? and where to find a test carried out by a credible/unbiased entity?

Don't over think this. If the oil meets the manufacture requirements it's ok to use for the engine.

IMO people make way to much out of this. Just go buy any name brand oil that meets the spec's for the engine. The over all differences are so small you'll never notice.

You should be more conserned about the flaw in the OEM tune that causes detenation then which oil you use. Tuners have found the flaw and can fix it with there own maps. That will reduce cylinder pressure and save the bearings and the valves. But that's just my opinion.

can you provide a quick and dirty way of reading/understanding these tests? and where to find a test carried out by a credible/unbiased entity?

An explanation of the standard viscosity index test :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity_index

Everything made for use in the automotive industry is subjected to tests established by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). Lubricants must perform all the standard tests and publish the results in order to get SAE approval. However, you'll find companies will make finding their test results a little difficult, especially if they don't perform well in a test or 2. A prime example I know of is Royal Purple. When I was a distributor, they really bragged about a couple of tests that they did well in, viscosity index, oxidation resistance, and water emulsification. However, they hid the results of the 4 ball wear test because they didn't perform well. When asked about it, they did a song and dance about how it wasn't an important test result. http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/ShearTst/4ball.pdf and http://papers.sae.org/930160/

I don't mean to imply that R.P. is the only oil marketer that does this, I believe they all do.

What I am trying to do is raise your awareness that you can find all of the test results and how to interpret them, taking opinions out of your oil purchasing decisions.

I have a 84 year old friend that was a certified Ferrari and Lamborghini technician. He still owns a fleet of exotic cars and runs Pennzoil in them with Fram filters. His faith in those products comes from 50 years ago and is convinced that they are still great products. Fortunately, he doesn't drive anymore and even though he may not drive them, he still changes the oil 2 times a year.

Don't over think this. If the oil meets the manufacture requirements it's ok to use for the engine.

 

IMO people make way to much out of this. Just go buy any name brand oil that meets the spec's for the engine. The over all differences are so small you'll never notice.

 

You should be more conserned about the flaw in the OEM tune that causes detenation then which oil you use. Tuners have found the flaw and can fix it with there own maps. That will reduce cylinder pressure and save the bearings and the valves. But that's just my opinion.

Do you know if the map in the OTS map for stage I on the COBB Access Port addresses this?

Do you know if the map in the OTS map for stage I on the COBB Access Port addresses this?

I believe so, but I'm no expert on Cobb's map's. I would think by now most Sabaru Tuners know of the problem. May be someone from Cobb could tell you. That could be a question for the Tuning Forum.

Don't over think this. If the oil meets the manufacture requirements it's ok to use for the engine.

 

IMO people make way to much out of this. Just go buy any name brand oil that meets the spec's for the engine. The over all differences are so small you'll never notice.

 

You should be more conserned about the flaw in the OEM tune that causes detenation then which oil you use. Tuners have found the flaw and can fix it with there own maps. That will reduce cylinder pressure and save the bearings and the valves. But that's just my opinion.

Is this "flaw" in the OEM tune affect SpecB's as well ?

If this is a known flaw, why is there not a Subaru recall on this ?

I'm hesitant to modify my stock tune when under warranty because the dealer says that it will void the powertrain warranty.

Is this "flaw" in the OEM tune affect SpecB's as well ?

If this is a known flaw, why is there not a Subaru recall on this ?

I'm hesitant to modify my stock tune when under warranty because the dealer says that it will void the powertrain warranty.

I'm sure you would have a difficult time getting Subaru to fess up to a problem. All I know is what my Tuner mentioned and what my buddy who own's a machine shop has seen. He's the one that figured the problems he's seeing could be caused by the flaw in the OEM MAP.

If you asked one of the Tuners, maybe they could tell you. I know that Cobb AP can not be detected. I have down loaded the AP when I took mine in for the ECU recall years ago and other times the car had to go to them.

'05 GT here with 121K on the clock.

Been running M1 5W-30 since day one without any problems...

My car recently went in for a turbo and CEL for AVCS. This happening with 3500 miles on the 2nd oil change with NAPA oil/filter. i can't help but wonder if the NAPA oil failed me somehow.

bought this car from meticulous owner, i run it mostly highway. Car has 105k. owned it since 80k, changed oil every 3-3500 with whatever's on sale. Never checked the banjo bolt screens, but it will be interesting to see what caused the failure. i have a 'Guardian' warranty that's covering the turbo. 1100 for stock turbo!!! just the turbo, 2k job with labor. my ded is 100 so all's well, for now.

So how about that NAPA oil...any experiences?