Substantial modification of a base model Legacy?

It seems the only legacies that get substantially modified are the legacy GTs, which makes sense, as they are easier to get more power out of, and the people that buy them generally have more money to spend on such things. But there are some people who do really major modifications on them, such as an STi engine/drivetrain swap, and that got me thinking.

 

If a person were to start with a NA legacy, with the intent of swapping in sti or aftermarket engine/drivetrain/brakes/suspension etc, would they come out ahead financially? Or would enough be recouped by selling off the superior LGT parts to make any cost savings negligible? Are there any actual chassis differences that I am unaware of?

Yes in the auto tranny the differences are astronomical so dont even consider it. In the manual transmission your dealing with a significantley less durable transmission and diffs. The brakes also are of a lesser quality. Just get a gt used and dont look back. Not to mention suspension and sway bars. Its a lost cause and you would experience a terminal case of buyers remorse if you followed that path.

Yes, all of those parts are less durable when stock. But a swapped 6 speed and sti diffs would be stronger and better than an LGT 5 speed. Most people on this forum seem unimpressed with the stock brakes on an LGT, so those would also be replaced with either sti brembos, or a suitable aftermarket piece. Suspension tends to be the first thing people modify on an LGT, usually replaced with more agressive coilovers to make the car lower and stiffer. My plan here would be to start with a NA wagon, and basically overhaul most of the major components, with the ultimate goal being as much of a sleeper as possible. basically the complete opposite of what you did by buying a spec b, no offense.

 

My real question is whether the stock parts of a moderate mileage LGT could be resold to recoup the substantial price difference between a LGT and a 2.5i, and whether there are any actual built in chassis differences between the 2.5i and the LGT. Obviously the resale value of the vehicle I did this to would probably be destroyed, but I intend to keep it for a very long time, so that is less of a concern.

we'll start with new prices for a comparo. 20k vs 29k. base vs. limited GT. you can do an assload with 8-9k. follow the link to mine, and I have about 2k into it, and most of my parts were new. so basically I have about 7k left to make up the difference between mine and a GT. with my future plans of nitrous/cams/pistons I should at least be even as far as power is concerned, and handle alot better than a stock GT. i'm looking at about $2500 for those.

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115692

a good used lgt is the way to go for 'bang for the modification buck'. you get the price of an NA leggie, but the performance of an LGT, with plenty of mod possibilities. and as far as swaps and engine rebuilds, if you have to pay a shop to perform all the labor, it can really eat up avail funds quickly......

What is your ultimate goal with the car? I don't see anything as really substandard about a stock GT. The suspension could be firmer and that's an easy fix and something you'd do no matter what version of the car you start with. It's not like you have a 1995 Hyundai Accent as your beginning platform.

 

The engine already is an "STi" engine. The intake manifold is different but that's it. The 5spd isn't fragile, nor do the brakes suck. If you want to road race the car, you need road race-capable brakes. For 99% of owners, better tires let the stock brakes perform more than adequately.

 

Throwing a new powertrain into a car like this isn't like it was 10-20 years ago. There's far too many integrated electronic surprises that make it very hard to just drop in a different engine (like going from NA to turbo) or transmission -- if you care about no CELs, warning lights, immobilizer, etc.

 

FWIW, the SpecB means nothing to anyone who doesn't already own a Legacy. You could paint CAUTION: 500 WHP on the car and it'd still be a sleeper.

Used LGT is the way to go. The drivetrain/interior features/BRAKES make up the difference. The whole "I'll buy a cheap ass car and make it even better" is like using ricer math -- it doesn't add up. You could buy an '91 civic and throw 25k into it, but you'd still be a failure.

 

On the flip side, car looks pretty good and clean

Used LGT is the way to go. The drivetrain/interior features/BRAKES make up the difference. The whole "I'll buy a cheap ass car and make it even better" is like using ricer math -- it doesn't add up. You could buy an '91 civic and throw 25k into it, but you'd still be a failure.

 

On the flip side, car looks pretty good and clean

 

Thank god you didn't say a 92 civic. Mine ran the 1/4 mile in 9.85 seconds at 146mph with a 1.6L

 

I think we're fighting a loosing battle here. Sounds like he wants to take mom's car and make it into a high performance car like "the little old lady from Pasadina" had in the 60's.

 

Hey, I just figured out what he needs to do, buy a Baja and do the swap.

Well, thanks some of you, I suppose I was getting a bit pie in the sky. I should probably just get a GT and start from there, since I am by no means an experienced builder or fabricator. I fail to see how buying the cheapest/lightest model of a car and doing performance upgrades to it has anything to do with being a ricer though. The drivetrain/interior features/brakes that some people are bragging about in this thread seem to have tons of threads of other people who are upset with them.

There is merit to both sides of the story, but if you approach it from a standpoint of "the car is only as good as its weakest link" perspective, starting off with a LGT is pretty much always the cheaper route. There's a lot more parts that "need" replacing than just swapping pads/rotors/coilovers (per your examples). All the other minor parts that factor into the equation increase the cost and complexity quite a bit.

 

As an example, people complain about the brakes on the LGT because they're barely adequate for the power and handling of the car. Stage 1 is basically free and Stage 2 can be very close to free if one so chooses, and sways for LGTs are readily available for fairly cheap, so it's *very* easy to over-drive the stock brakes. Upgrading pads and fluid takes care of ~85% of people's complaints, and the rest of them either go for a full upgrade for the performance or bling factor.

 

With a NA car, it's much more difficult (and expensive) to upgrade the car to the same power/handling levels, so brakes are much less frequently complained about. I'm willing to bet that more than two thirds of the LGT owners on this forum have some sort of performance upgrade, while a *much* smaller percentage of NA owners have equivalent performance upgrades. On top of that, upgraded parts aren't always available for the NA chassis, so at that point it becomes a "swap everything" scenario to upgrade one part.

Thank you LuckyBob, that makes a lot of sense. I suppose I should actually take a test drive in a LGT before I get so obsessed with mods and power. I'm sure it will be quite an improvement over my current fat bastard of a truck. I just dislike the idea of financing, and buying a N/A would allow me to purchase it a lot sooner.

Hold off for the LGT imo, maybe look at used LGT, as others have recommended.

 

Moving over from that Yukon, you will feel like you are driving a Ferrari.

 

Trying to make a NA into a performance car is like trying to ram a square peg into a round hole when there are round pegs readily available.

the round pegs cost more money than I can afford.

Oh, I would definitely be buying used. Even though wagons allegedly came in manual after 05 up here, they are ridiculously rare. So I will be keeping my eye out for an 05 LGT Manual Limited wagon, preferably with the charcoal interior. And I guess I should get back to work to afford all this, ehehe.

If you are going to swap, look for older wagon with busted headgasket/popped motor for next to nothing. Then source used STI engine/transmission.

Trying to make a NA into a performance car is like trying to ram a square peg into a round hole when there are round pegs readily available.

 

this is exactly true, i drive a 2.5i and i'm telling you it's a bad idea to try and power mod it haha

I HAZ 2.5I also, I did not buy it to make it fast. Coming from an 04 STi that was modded, I would get the LGT if your looking to get some parts on it.