Sub power/system config

So, I have been visiting different stores, reading posts, and slowly thinking about what I want my system to be in my LGT sedan. After much deliberation, this is what I am thinking:

 

CleanSweep

JL Audio 500/5 amp

JL Audio 12W3 sub/enclosure

JL Audio XR650Cxi's for all 4 doors

 

This is a little more than I was planning on spending, but I figure if I buy a couple of pieces at a time, then get it all installed in the winter, should be fairly affordable (relatively speaking).

 

My question is this: what are most people using for sub power, watt-wise? My other car has my old system from about 12 years ago. A RF Power 50x2 and a pair of Soundstream SPL 12's. 600 watts of bass. Hits very hard, but a little more than I think I need now that I am older (plus I can always take the other car for a spin if I want to piss off the neighborhood). If I use the 500/5, will 250 watts to a single 12 be enough, especially in the sedan? Any thoughts/experiences are appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Neil

i have same subs (mine are 500 watts a peice) and amp as you, only diamond coaxials for speakers and using an avic-n2 for my head unit (50x4). its a lot of power. 500/5 is enough to run the whole car for a great experience. of course, like msot other systems, i am not putting out as much as i could, but my setup (our speakers are probably of same quality) puts out some major punch and clarity. i'd also like to mention that sonically our legacies are excellent. i kno i didn't get technical, and i can't. but its kickass, do what you plan to do.

My question is this: what are most people using for sub power, watt-wise? My other car has my old system from about 12 years ago. A RF Power 50x2 and a pair of Soundstream SPL 12's. 600 watts of bass. Hits very hard, but a little more than I think I need now that I am older (plus I can always take the other car for a spin if I want to piss off the neighborhood). If I use the 500/5, will 250 watts to a single 12 be enough, especially in the sedan? Any thoughts/experiences are appreciated.

Thanks,

Neil

 

Wondering how you're getting 600 watts of bass from an RF 50x2. No matter. I'm using 400w into a single 10" in a OB wagon, I keep it turned down to about 35% to keep balance with the rest of the system which is about 90x4. So I'm probably using 250w or so and the bass is excellent - balanced, tight, potent but not overpowering.

 

Since you're in the sedan your bass has to come thru the seat. If you can find a way to "vent" it into the passenger space, your sound will be much improved & 250w should be fine. If not & you're stuck with just a box in the trunk, I think you'd be better off with 4-500w. Possible to put a pair of 8's in the rear deck as infinite baffle?

 

I'm thinking that your rear fill will be almost inaudible with 25w vs 100w up front, I'd test it thoroughly before finishing the install so you can change it before you've really bought the amp in case it doesn't work for you.

Thanks for the replies and keep them coming.

 

The Rockford amp I have is an old school amp. According to the spec sheet included, bridging it into a 1 ohm mono load puts out about 600 watts. All I know is that it hits hard, and I have heard that RF is not what they used to be back in the day (before they started doing mass market).

 

As for venting into the cabin, I might look into removing the sub cut-out cover that is in place for the MacIntosh system other countries get. A couple of posts stated that the plate is just screwed onto the back deck, so it should be easy to remove. Then it is just a matter of getting the sound through the rear deck, which I think is just cardboard anyway, covered with carpet.

 

The other option my installer was talking about was two amps, one 75x4 (the 300/4), the other 250 mono. The 500/5 would be cheaper, but not by much. It would be nice if JL posted MSRP's on their website (are you listening Manville?), since they do not authorize internet sales.

Yes, RF went waaay downhill, their old-school stuff was great for pure power. What size is the deck Macintosh opening?

 

I like the 2 amps for flexibility, on the other hand I like 1x5 for simplicity. Since you're taking your time & doing the homework, I think you can find an all-in-one amp that will work for you.

 

If this were me, I'd do 75-100w in front, 35-50 in rear & 250+ to a single deck-mounted sub. I'd spend some cash on quality front speakers, amp & sub and get it right the first time. It's a small cabin, using the rear deck with say a 10" I think 250w is plenty, even a good 8" (8W6 or so). That would do it for my ears (but maybe not yours), it'd be balanced, conservative & powerful. It would NOT be a "boom" system.

 

Either way, I think your best bet is still mounting the sub free air in the rear deck. Otherwise you're basically putting a sub in 2 boxes - the sealed box & the trunk. If you can directly vent it, better, but still second to the deck IMO.

What model RF amp do you have? There was a Power 50m and a Power 50x2

Yes, RF went waaay downhill, their old-school stuff was great for pure power. What size is the deck Macintosh opening?

 

I like the 2 amps for flexibility, on the other hand I like 1x5 for simplicity. Since you're taking your time & doing the homework, I think you can find an all-in-one amp that will work for you.

 

If this were me, I'd do 75-100w in front, 35-50 in rear & 250+ to a single deck-mounted sub. I'd spend some cash on quality front speakers, amp & sub and get it right the first time. It's a small cabin, using the rear deck with say a 10" I think 250w is plenty, even a good 8" (8W6 or so). That would do it for my ears (but maybe not yours), it'd be balanced, conservative & powerful. It would NOT be a "boom" system.

 

Either way, I think your best bet is still mounting the sub free air in the rear deck. Otherwise you're basically putting a sub in 2 boxes - the sealed box & the trunk. If you can directly vent it, better, but still second to the deck IMO.

 

It is a shame about Rockford. I'm sure that they still have some good stuff, but I think they might have past their hey-day. I have read other posts that recommend against doing a free-air in the rear deck. I was just going to remove the cut-out to let the bass into the cabin a little easier.

 

Patagonian,

It is a Power 50x2, circa 1993 or so. I still have the spec sheet and ownes manual floating around somewhere. Awesome amp. Never shut down on me.

the old grey Power series amps were nice. They sounded even better than the 'Punch' series, but they cost ALOT of money. 1 ohm stable is not cheap to build.

 

I had Phoenix Gold MS series amps....they made the MPS series which was analagous to the RF Power series. High current, low power ratings.

the old grey Power series amps were nice. They sounded even better than the 'Punch' series, but they cost ALOT of money. 1 ohm stable is not cheap to build.

 

I had Phoenix Gold MS series amps....they made the MPS series which was analagous to the RF Power series. High current, low power ratings.

 

They were a lot. How many people pay $500 for an amp rated at 25w x 2? One of my first amps was a Phoenix Gold M25. Nice little amp for not too much money. Traded that to my friend (+$100) for a Rockford Fosgate Power 1000. That thing was huge! Fun times swapping and trading stereo equipment. Ever had Oz Audio subs? I had 2 10's when they first came out. I thought the salesperson was nuts when he stuck his finger behind the rubber surround and held it up that way.

I had my MS275 and MS2125 amps mounted together with the bottom covers off, something like this behind the seat:

 

http://www.phoenixgold.com/webfaq/Image46.jpg

 

Gold circuit boards and LED's looked very cool at night with the seat folded down.

I remember the power 1000, built like a picnic table. Once saw a demo of it wired mono into a sngle 18" placed in a box facing up but not screwed in. the driver was jumping literally 10" into the air. It's too bad they went mainstream, I guess there's more money that way tho.

 

One thing that confuses me, I ignored the audio world from around '91 to maybe '99. When I got out, anything that said "phoenix Gold" was on par with Pyramid - about as cheap & flashy as it could get. When did they start making quality stuff, and when did they stop?

The zenith of PG was around '93 - '98 or so. They made some of the BEST stuff out there during that period. PPI, PG and RF were the hot things to have back then. PPI went belly up (at least twice) and the founders started Xtant, then moved on (I think Manville Smith of JL fame got his start at PPI, than started Xtant). RF started selling to Best Buy around 2001 and went downhill.

The buddy I sold the PG to used it for a pair of 6.5" KEF speakers in the doors of his truck, plus had a PPI amp pushing 3 8" JL subs (the old W6's I think, with the dual 6 ohm). It was a sick sound system in his truck. Solid, tight, low, and LOUD. He also had a PPI preamp. Simple and clean.

I had three 8W6's in a slot-loaded box with tons of power. Bass so tight it would make it hard to breathe....

I had a 2250 w/ the fan shroud (3 variable speed fans)

 

It was huge and unfortunately my cars electrical system just could not keep up! Had to downgrade.

I would recommend 2 ohm coax's like infinity kappa as an example. And also using a 2 ohm or lower single subwoofer. There are many examples of those. This will allow you to get good current and power out of your multichannel amp.

:raisedead:

 

lowering the impedance load on the amp may increase power, but it lowers damping factor, limiting dynamics. A double-edged sword - choose wisely.