What "Stage" do I need?

All -

 

I have a 2009 Outback XT with 5-speed manual. I almost just replaced it with a 2014 2.5i Premium 6-speed (more legroom for more kids) but neither my wife nor I could get over the loss of power and amenities.

 

Since I'm keeping it, I'm falling back in love with the idea of the car. With 48k miles, I'm out of warranty but still have a young car. I'd like some light modifications to improve drivability, maintain or improve reliability, and improve performance. In other words, maybe a stage 1 or 2 (max).

 

Stage 1 as I understand is tune only. I'm inclined to the ease of Accessport, but concerned with reports of poor drivability of the stock calibrations. I don't have the time or interest in spending time on the dyno (ok, interest but definitely not time). Likewise, I don't have the time for making my own cals, scouring data, etc. I could do it (used to be an engine calibrator for Honda) but my wife and kids definitely won't let me spend that kind of time!

 

Also regarding the AP, how does this impact check engine lights? I can't can't handle looking at that yellow light, this is my main car first and something fun second.

 

Looking at stage 2, do I understand that's basically just a downpipe? I like the idea of quicker spool and better low-end as I that's how I drive, but the stock engine also runs out of breath up top.

 

Out of scope for sure are fuel pumps, injectors, turbos, FMIC, etc.

 

So, what's the prescription?

 

- Matt

Get a mad-dad down pipe. It has the look of two cats. get a 2.5" to 3" down pipe to cat back adapter and find a tuner and get an open source road tune. Less than a grand and much better driver.

Hmmmm

I have an access port and I love it. Going stage 1 with just a catback exhaust for a little sound was great. Very noticeable difference, I feel the car didn't seem to struggle as much accelerating, held top end a little better though it still died out since its a VF40.

I never had an engine code issue either, with the Cobb maps anyway. Plus the nice thing about the access port is it can read engine codes and turn them off. (Turning it off doesn't make the actual problem go away haha)

I feel you'll be happy with the access port, it's easy to use, you will get what you seem to be looking for out of it, and then some. It's easy to switch back to stock, you won't be able to blow up your motor using it to tune with OTS maps vs. going open source tuning.

 

Now stage 2 is a night/day difference between stage 1. A lot more sound, a lot more power.

Yes you will need a down pipe, and I highly recommend a 3" catback with this as well to eliminate back pressure.

You may want to get a downpipe with a high flow cat for emissions and sound reduction if you want to keep it on the quiet side of stage 2. That, and a catback that has resonators on it. Personally, I wanted power and sound so I went full cat less exhaust...loud! And so very fun. Going stage 2 seems like your car is a whole new animal. Keep in mind, more power=less mileage and most likely more maintenance. And it's a slippery slope.

 

Like I said, for your needs it seems the AP is the way to go. Just my $.02

Let me know if you want any more help

A couple things here...

 

1. Yes I'd likely do a catted downpipe. Any recommendations? I'd favor quality and ease of installation over outright performance.

2. I'm likely going to retain the stock cat-back for quite some time. I like the sound, but this is a primary car. A little more sound would be great, a lot would be terrible.

3. Any other parts? Really just a downpipe and accessport? I mean, great! but no need for silicone inlet pipes, more robust bypass valves, etc?

A couple things here...

 

1. Yes I'd likely do a catted downpipe. Any recommendations? I'd favor quality and ease of installation over outright performance.

2. I'm likely going to retain the stock cat-back for quite some time. I like the sound, but this is a primary car. A little more sound would be great, a lot would be terrible.

3. Any other parts? Really just a downpipe and accessport? I mean, great! but no need for silicone inlet pipes, more robust bypass valves, etc?

 

Invidia, Cobb, TurboXS

 

Stage definitions - http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/unofficial-legacy-gt-stage-upgrade-definitions-48123.html

 

Upgrade path, based around turbo sizes, with recommended supporting mods: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turboi-wiki-twist-178684.html

 

May want to bulletproof your TMIC - http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/bulletproof-tmic-mod-lgt-08-wrx-158870.html

 

If you were 05-06, you'd want a catless uppipe. 09 is catless from the factory, so you're good there. BPV should be fine at Stage 2, may leak at Stage 3. Stock catback isn't a major restriction at stage 2, so mostly just for the noise at that point.

 

No need for a silicone inlet - might flow a little smoother for marginally quicker spool up from what I've read, but unnecessary from a bottleneck standpoint. Seems like the stock inlet tends to tear easily (search forum for paper inlet), and are replaced out of necessity after being torn during turbo installs.

I agree with the others here - downpipe + stage 2 tune (preferably a dyno tune from one of our reputable forum tuners) to uncork the stock setup power-wise. Then toss in an upgraded rear swaybar, some rear swaybar reinforcement brackets, and a good set of tires. This will get you to the "way it should have come from the factory".

 

PM me if you need pricing on any of these parts. I am an OEM and aftermarket parts dealer, and have years of experience modifying and maintaining these cars. I also have a bronze '09 OBXT 5MT, in addition to my '06 LGT.

I agree with the others here - downpipe + stage 2 tune (preferably a dyno tune from one of our reputable forum tuners) to uncork the stock setup power-wise. Then toss in an upgraded rear swaybar, some rear swaybar reinforcement brackets, and a good set of tires. This will get you to the "way it should have come from the factory".

 

PM me if you need pricing on any of these parts. I am an OEM and aftermarket parts dealer, and have years of experience modifying and maintaining these cars. I also have a bronze '09 OBXT 5MT, in addition to my '06 LGT.

 

And some endlinks. Moog seems like the best value.

 

As an in-between of Cobb's OTS maps on the accessport, and a dyno tune, you can get an e-tune:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4723589&postcount=82

The sway bar was done immediately when I bought the car. I came from Volvos where this was equally common/necessary. I'm ready for new rubber this summer, so the handling basics should be there.

 

What's an e-tune, though?

The Moogs I have installed have been identical to OEM, and the price was within a few bucks. Although I bought the Moogs local so online may yield better results. That being said, I always recommend Moog or OEM endlinks for street-only cars, even with mildly upgraded sways. I just don't see the failure rate or performance improvement to justify $200+ for a set of aftermarket links on a street driven car. That money would be better spent on tires (which in turn may justify a beefier set of endlinks).

The Moogs I have installed have been identical to OEM, and the price was within a few bucks. Although I bought the Moogs local so online may yield better results. That being said, I always recommend Moog or OEM endlinks for street-only cars, even with mildly upgraded sways. I just don't see the failure rate or performance improvement to justify $200+ for a set of aftermarket links on a street driven car. That money would be better spent on tires (which in turn may justify a beefier set of endlinks).

 

I was just going off of this thread, but I haven't installed my RSB yet, and I have zero real world experience:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/strong-sway-bar-end-links-cheap-alternative-moog-165314.html

 

What's an e-tune, though?

 

These are all pretty basic questions you have, there's already tons of info on this forum, so search around and read the stickies.

 

An e-tune is where you work with a tuner via email. You send them money and your modlist, and they send you a base map. You flash the map to your ECU, do some data logs, and send the logs to your tuner. They revise your map, then you go do more logs. Rinse and repeat until you and the tuner are happy and your tune is healthy. You log at idle, do a little around town cruising at mid-RPMs, andd o a 3rd gear pull (for 5mt, 6mt you do 4th gear) from 2k to redline/close to redline.

 

3rd gear gets up to around 90 mph, which requires a certain amount of open road and a lack of police presence....

 

Cobb AP comes with a Stage 2 map, so you should be able to run that with no issue, but it's generic, where as an e-tune or dyno tune would be customized for your car.

i would probably get the AP first and run their Stage 1 map. if you're not happy then get the turbo back exhaust and do Stage 2.

 

Note: mufflers will be hard to find. you would need to modify legacy gt mufflers to make exhaust tips point down or get the AVO Outback exhaust which isnt cheap and dont even know if they still make it.

 

anything beyond that and you will get pulled into a world you sound like you want to avoid.

Out of scope for sure are fuel pumps, injectors, turbos, FMIC, etc.

Yawn... you need stage 4+ because racecar!

Down pipe and opensource tune at a reputable shop....I really only see the AP as necessary if you plan on doing further modifications

I was also window shopping some axle-back (aka, mufflers) like AVO and Nameless. Is the agreement that these don't require tuning, don't impact power much/at all, and are just a sound & aesthetics choice?

 

Reason I ask is that I see two possibilities. AP (stage 2) & downpipe, or AP (stage 1) & mufflers to wake the car up and add some new interest. The money is similar, performance gains would be less with mufflers. The benefit is that mufflers don't require a stage tune, so reversion to stock is pretty simple if I needed or wanted to.

Welcome aboard. I would suggest drive your car stock and enjoy it with the family. I dont think they will appreciate the sound coming from an after market axle-back. Give it some time to get use to. You can always do your modding latter on. Look at me, I am still stock and unmod, but always happy when driving her. In the end, only you can decide. Good luck.

^ disagree, he's wanting more power like we all do. You even said it yourself, only he can decide. Likely the reason he posted here in the first place. Get amongst it! Stage 2 is good cheap upgrade.

 

 

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True enough. This isn't a plan I'd be able or choose to do overnight. I am quite interested in the AP, given that it's totally and easily reversible. After that would be a matter of time, interest and money. I've just had the time the past few days to do some research and have tried to get some notes taken, etc. Its fun to look and plan, the doing take a lot more time!

I don't like to be heard so I have the stock mufflers

Is it accurate that a downpipe requires a tune? Not to maximize performance, but even just for safety?

 

I'm thinking about the Cobb AP ability to revert to stock, fuel econ, etc maps.

I have the AVO mufflers on the OEM mid-pipe and my wife actually commented that she liked the way it sounds. It growls when you step on it but is quiet cruising the highway.

Getting the access port will be a very beneficial place to start. Try a stage 1 map, or fuel economy map, or valet mode. It also has anti theft which won't allow the rpms over 500 so the car won't even start

And if you decide to go stage 2 from that point, you already have the access port to do the proper tune for it.

And reversible.......

I'm kind of in the same boat. 113000mi, stock 5eat wagon. Once the reliability bits are replaced (banjo bolt, uppipe) I'm thinking about going stage 1. Does anyone have a 5EAT stage 1 with before and after Qmi trap and times? Just curious about how much of adifference it makes in daily driving. Does fuel consumption change much?

I'm kind of in the same boat. 113000mi, stock 5eat wagon. Once the reliability bits are replaced (banjo bolt, uppipe) I'm thinking about going stage 1. Does anyone have a 5EAT stage 1 with before and after Qmi trap and times? Just curious about how much of adifference it makes in daily driving. Does fuel consumption change much?

 

Google

stay stock stay happy

It never stops at stage one...never....