I love/hate, but mostly hate my Subaru right now.

Last October, I purchased my first Subaru, a 1998 Legacy GT. I paid overpaid a bit, $3400, for a car with 175k miles on it... But it was literally the ONLY AWD car I could find with a manual transmission for under $5k. I drive over the Snoqualmie Mountain Pass probably every other week, and really wanted an AWD car for the winter. When this car is working, it's amazing. I have taken through blizzard conditions on the pass, in the middle of the night, and never had any issues making it over safely... For that reason, I LOVE this car.

 

For the following reasons, I absolutely HATE it. Here is the laundry list of the work I've had to get done to it...

 

When I first bought the car, I noticed that if I stomped on the gas to pass a car, the engine temperature would decrease... $300, and a new radiator hose/thermostat later, that problem was fixed. What wasn't fixed was the plethora of other issues that the mechanic found... Massive oil leaks in the engine (everything BUT the head gaskets), needed a new timing belt (fair enough), front CV axles were on their way out, and he said there was a leak in the power steering. Took it to another guy for a second opinion, and he agreed completely, but said that they couldn't find a power-steering leak.

 

So I got competing quotes, figured out what needed to be done first, and ended up paying $1800ish for the a complete engine reseal, timing belt/water pump, and head gaskets. I decided to wait on the CV axles until they went out, which they did a few weeks ago.

 

I took the car in to get the CV axles done, which was supposed to be a $350 job. Well, that was all fine and dandy until one of the calipers locked up, and I ended up having to replace both of the front ones. They didn't charge me labor on that, but what was going to be a $350 bill ended up costing me $550. But wait, there's more! My master cylinder was apparently on its way out, as them bleeding the brake lines caused it to completely crap out on me. Driving in downtown Seattle, with your brakes bypassing the master cylinder sucks, by the way... It is also during this time that I found out my A/C is crap. So the mechanic agrees to do the master cylinder for $120... Awesome, I can afford that... Not much more at this point, but I can afford that. They also fixed the A/C, so I was at $220 after tax. Fine... My car works now... I'm good to go. Wait, there's more!!! Now, when I first start my car, it refuses to idle. Regardless of the engine being cold, or warm, the car will not idle w/o my help on the gas peddle. It will do this for the first mile or so I drive, and then be okay. But for that mile or so, it's a precarious dance between the clutch, brake, and gas peddle.

 

The mechanic thinks it's the idle sensor. He said they could try to clean it, and that would hopefully correct the problem, but all I can think about is what is going to happen next. I cannot afford to keep this car with all these issues.

 

Let's just add it up for a second:

 

Car: $3400

Tires: $450

Radiator: $300

Engine: $1800

CV Axles: $350

Calipers: $200

Master Cylinder: $120

A/C: $100

Idle: ???

 

So far, I'm $6720 into a 16 year old car, with 174,000 miles on it. I'm pissed. I absolutely love driving the car, but HATE how much money it is costing me. But at this point, I'll never get back anywhere near what I've put into it. I think I'd be lucky to recoup half my costs.

 

So what is your guys's thoughts on this? Should it stay or should it go? Can I potentially clean the sensor myself (I know very little about cars). I'm currently scheduled to report for Navy OCS on August 10 in Newport, RI (got a pilot slot). After OCS, I will have an income so that I may potentially be able to finance a newer Subaru. Should I keep the car until then? I wanted to drive (from Washington) to OCS... Should I chance the car making it? If it craps out on me, I may end up having to dump it off somewhere and purchase a plane ticket.

 

Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you.

Subaru's are very easy to work on, and there is a ton of how-tos and utube videos on all of the repairs you listed. You could have saved over half of the expenses, and learned more about your car. If you can learn to do the work yourself, Subarus can be pretty cheap. If you have to pay $50 to $100 per hour for labor it could keep you poor!

The Idle sensor probably just needs a good cleaning with some throttle body cleaner (not carb cleaner!) and would cost you less than $10 and a half hour of your time.

Good luck on the drive!

Oh and don't let the Navy mechanics work on your car! I'm still finding things on my daughters jeep that they jacked up.

Whether something is worth continuing to put money into is a very complicated yet personal decision. I too bought a '98 Legacy last year (it had only 89K miles on the clock so I paid $4,300 for it), but I had to since have timing belt replaced, A/C condenser replaced (but refrigerant has leaked out again so back to the mechanic), and now a rear wheel bearing is on its way out (again to the mechanic next week). I have over $6K invested and I know I'll be lucky to get half that if I sold it. It's overall a solid reliable car and I'm hoping to get up to 200K miles out of it before anything major, but you never.know. If you love it, the major components are still good, and the cost of replacing it far outweighs anything you would get for it (all of these are yes for me) then I would lean towards keeping it.

Its an old car, old cars brake. My subies at the dealer right now for front ball joints wheel bearing alignment and inspection. 1k or so im quoted. Only reason I didnt do the ball joints was the joint and control arm are fused together from the rust

I think, in general, that if a person can't, or is unwilling to learn to work on a vehicle, said person should not buy a vehicle that is 10+ years old.

 

I think also, in general, when a person buys a 10+ year old car and uses phrases like " if I 'stomp' on the gas", or "when I 'floor' it", or "when I'm doing 90mph and try to pass", or......you get idea. I think there might be an unreasonable expectation of the mechanical capabilities of the operational limitations of said vehicle.

 

I also think, in general, that if the owner of a vehicle doesn't have a good mechanical understanding of a the operating systems of a vehicle, the depth at which a mechanic instills his skill is greatly increased.

 

In looking at your list, I don't know that the car is to blame for everything. Some things are just maintenance on any vehicle. The PO might not have done any maintenance, so your playing catch-up.

 

-Most would not worry about an infrequent under heating issue.

-Fixing the oil leaks, personal choice. Fixing those leaks during a timing belt job, very practical choice, $1800 seems about right for the amount of work, if the engine was pulled and the rear cam seal and separator plate was done, not really out of the maintenance realm for a Subaru.

-cv axles, standard maintenance on most any cv equipped vehicle.

-brake calipers, reasonable maintenance if never done, or if you live in a place that uses salt as de-icer.(such as the PNW).

-master cylinder, seems odd it failed while they were working on it.

-a/c, could charge that yourself for $20.

-poor idle, after being worked on? Sounds like your mechanic has your number. How many problems have arose after or during a repair of something else?

 

You might be into parts at about $900 if you did everything yourself. But if your not willing to learn to work on it, you have to rely on others, and that can be its own problem. I'd look around for new mechanic, or some friends that can help or teach you vehicle mechanics. I'd also look around the engine compartment for loose, unattached, cracked, or broken vacuum lines, that could cause an idle issue after being worked on. If it was a sensor, you'd have a CEL.

 

Subarus aren't very complicated, but for some reason, a lot of shops will try to make you think they are. So you're into the car for $6700, that equates to about 1 1/2 years of car payments and you've had it for 6 months so far. You've fixed about everything, so a couple hundred more to fix the idle, a couple hundred more over the next year for incidentals, and if you drive the car like its a 16 year old car with 175,000 miles on it, you may yet break even after 12 months, and still be able to get many more years of service out it.

 

I wish you the best of luck, they really are good cars when treated appropriately.

learning how to work on cars has saved me soooooo much money

At this point you've done a lot of the major stuff for an old car. I'm assuming the mechanic is referring to the IAC (idle air control), it's a valve, not so much a sensor, and can be cleaned super easy. I second the idea of doing that yourself, it might take you a half hour to get it out if you're new to working on cars, but it will save you a lot of money. If that doesn't fix it you can find super cheap good used ones on EBay. I picked one up for $35 shipped, worked great. It could be a vacuum line, but I wouldn't think it would be as likely since the problem resolves once it heats up.

For comparision, if I could have gotten my ball joints to release from the control arm it would have been 60 bucks to do the front. The dealer is charging me about 500$ for the job, more if THEY consider them a PITA. Save your money learn to start workin on ur cars not only will u be happier, but u will have more money to put into making it better if ur in to that thing.

You've probably checked, but make sure the hose from the intake to the IAC is connected on both ends.

The rough or non existent idling is exactly how one of mine was acting and the hose was touching, but not securely attached to the IAC. When I bought it, I drove it about 25 miles home with it dying at every stop. Got home, found the loose hose, poured in some seafoam, cleaned the MAF, and it ran like great.

Bout 1-1/2" hose close to the throttle body, below the air snorkel-intake.

Whether to keep the car or not is a decision only you can make. I definitely feel your concern about buying an older car and then spending almost as much as the purchase price to fix it up. I've gone through it with my 1997 (though most of the cost is maintenance I chose to do...such as full fluid replacement, brakes, tires, etc).

 

Back to your specific situation. The money you've spent is a sunk cost. The decision to keep or not should be solely made on what it would cost to keep the car or replace it with something different. Given you still are having issues with it you've got a difficult decision to make.

 

Generally these cars are solid and reliable. Like any car of this age / mileage there are going to be outlays to driving it. If it helps try to break down your costs based on maintenance and repair costs. Some of the work you had done was maintenance (even if it manifested itself as a repair).

 

I'm with Idaho subaru in thinking the problem you're experiencing now may be related to the work the mechanic performed. Did the problem exist before the work was performed? While it could be it was a coincidence the problem started at the same time the work was performed I feel it more likely something the mechanic did was the cause of the problem. It could be as innocent as disturbing something that was marginal to begin with or not so much in that something was reassembled correctly.

 

With all this rambling I'm not sure if any of this is helping. If it were me I'd have to decide how much additional money I'm willing to put into such an old car. Once I've decided that I would do any necessary repairs / maintenance as long as it came in under that number. Anything above and I would take my losses and sell it.

people generally sell cars when there are repairs/ issues they are not willing to take care of. they also rarely offer info on those issues to buyers. the game is to find out as much as possible before buying so you can make a good decision.

 

the main thing here is, after completing all that work, are you willing to dump the car for another used car that has something hidden wrong with it, triggering the owner to sell it? sometimes adding a bit of cash and repairs to an older car is worth more than a newer car that you dont know what is wrong with it.

 

i enjoy working on my cars, so the question is a no brainer for me. id keep it. same reason ive kept my 01 dodge ram 1500 for so long, i know what is wrong with it, as well as what is already replaced and fixed. that is some handy info for any car owner. if i were to sell it, id never get what ive put into it. but i do know that it has 230k (ish) miles on it, runs strong and will last me another 30k+ at least. unless my son decides to abuse it and destroys it before then...

Thank you, everyone, for your contributions. I do appreciate all of the feedback. I wish I had the time, and ability to learn how to do most of the work myself. Unfortunately, I live above a Jazzercise building, and do not have a garage, or one available to me, to do car work. Nor do I have the tools, or a place to store them at the moment. I do have a friend who said he has cleaned his IAC himself, and is going to help me look at it, hopefully, today.

 

A little bit of my whining does come from the incredible luck I've had with past used car purchases. My last car, a 2000 Integra, which was totaled, gave me zero issues. I did the required maintenance (timing belt, tires, oil), and that car ran great. It also paid out great with the insurance settlement, which is what I bought this Subaru with. I am a huge Subaru fan, and come from a family that really enjoys theirs. When I bought this car, I almost ended up going with an Audi A4 (quattro), but decided to go with the cheaper Subaru as they tend to be more reliable, and are easier/cheaper to work on.

 

I plan to buy another, albeit newer, Subaru to replace this one when I can afford to finance it and still save some money. I think I will be stuck driving this guy for a while, only because of the amount of money that has been sunken into it. I'll never get near that amount I've spent back, which means buying some POS Cavalier with who knows what sort of issues.

 

And just to clarify, the cooling was not an intermittent issue. Every time I accelerated at more than what would be used for city driving, the car temperature would plummet. If I merged onto the highway, my warmed up car would be pegging cold on the gauge. Driving a car on cold, at highway speeds, when the outside temperature is 9º F is not good. I still wonder, to this day, if I jacked some stuff up having it do that, even for the short amount of time it was on cold.

 

I'll keep you guys updated on how troubleshooting/cleaning the IAC goes. Really, thank you for all of your input, it truly is appreciated.

A little bit of my whining does come from the incredible luck I've had with past used car purchases. My last car, a 2000 Integra, which was totaled, gave me zero issues. I did the required maintenance (timing belt, tires, oil), and that car ran great. It also paid out great with the insurance settlement, which is what I bought this Subaru with. I am a huge Subaru fan, and come from a family that really enjoys theirs. When I bought this car, I almost ended up going with an Audi A4 (quattro), but decided to go with the cheaper Subaru as they tend to be more reliable, and are easier/cheaper to work on.

Despite all the issues you've had with the Subaru I think it was a much better choice over the Audi wrt reliability and cost. Subaru's are cheaper and German vehicles aren't, IMO, as reliable as Subaru's. I say this of an owner of a number of BMW vehicles (including my current X5). The cost to repair and maintain the BMW's greatly exceeds that of my 1997 Outback :-)

 

I plan to buy another, albeit newer, Subaru to replace this one when I can afford to finance it and still save some money. I think I will be stuck driving this guy for a while, only because of the amount of money that has been sunken into it. I'll never get near that amount I've spent back, which means buying some POS Cavalier with who knows what sort of issues.

Who knows...by then maybe you'll have fixed everything on the current one and will forget all the trouble you've had with it so far.

 

And just to clarify, the cooling was not an intermittent issue. Every time I accelerated at more than what would be used for city driving, the car temperature would plummet. If I merged onto the highway, my warmed up car would be pegging cold on the gauge. Driving a car on cold, at highway speeds, when the outside temperature is 9º F is not good. I still wonder, to this day, if I jacked some stuff up having it do that, even for the short amount of time it was on cold.

I went back and re-read your original post. I see you said you had paid $300 for a radiator hose / thermostat. Did it really cost that much to replace these (or was that having someone else replace them)?

300 for a rad, hose and therm is about right. probably 160ish in retail cost for parts, then 1.5hrs labor. thats about right.

lol

 

I refer you to the result of my frustrated rage with my second Subie

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/failed-your-second-generation-subaru-todayi-194205.html?t=194205

Yesterday on my lunch brake, a coworker who had airflow sensor cleaner helped me spray the thing down. It didn't fix the problem, but fortunately didn't make it worse either. We didn't pull the sensor, just sprayed it through the vent in the intake. We did pull, what looks like the connector for it (part that's screwed into the box), and there was what looked like a broken prong... But I don't know. Weather is looking up today, so I'm going to pull up some youtube videos and pray that I can pull the IAC and clean it before I have to go to work.

 

Car was pegging the low dot on the dipstick for oil... Any chance that may be leading to this?

 

EDIT: One thing I noticed is that it tends to not die as quickly, or struggle as much, on a start if I turn my heater on. Air has to be turned to hot. Does this elude to anything?

You poor slob. Welcome to automotive hell. You should have bought an Audi... at least you will feel justified when it breaks.

 

And audis don't rust like this.

 

I hate hate hate my rusty garbage truck fruitcake dumb ass car. If I wasn't financially buried up to my eyes and spent thousands to keep this running I'd park it under a tree, cut it down on top of the car and set the whole works on fire.

This is a place for people who like subaru legacy's. Leavin it at that.