50k orig miles and head gasket issues

I bought my car 2 months ago from a used car dealer. 2-owner spotless carfax, and I had a thorough inspection done at a Subaru Dealer. They found a few small things, but nothing indicative of HG issues. So I bought the car “as-is” from the used car dealer with no warranty.

 

2 months later I find coolant bubbles in the coolant overflow tank when idling @ operating temp. I burp all the air out, still bubbles (possible HG leak). I get a Subaru dealer to take a hydrocarbon sniffer to the overflow tank and after a few revs, the sniffer goes from 10 HC’s to about 60 HC’s in seconds. At this point the service tech tells me that’s the sure sign I have HG issues.

 

I like this car very much. I’ve spent quite a bit already on new tires, sound system, parts to go Stage 2, more parts, tag fee and a radiator replacement. I don’t want to sell it now and buy another used car that has God knows what issues. Also I owe $11k on my loan still…

 

So at this point I have a few questions:

 

1. I was quoted $2,400 by a Subaru dealership to fix this HG issue and they will throw in the timing belt/water pump. Is this a fair price for a Subaru dealership?

 

2. Should I waste my breath confronting the used car dealer who sold me this car 2 months ago? Again, I bought it as-is, no warranty

 

3. Should I waste my breath confronting the Subaru dealership who “inspected” the car and said it was good to buy? This is the same Subaru dealership that would be repairing my HG issue

I'm not an expert on cooling systems, but I'll throw out a few things I'm thinking.

 

When you mentioned having a thin layer of light grey stuff floating in your coolant overflow tank after your recent coolant flush, I had no idea what that could be and did some research. I found that it was actually somewhat common to have a little grey gunk in the overflow tank, but I couldn't find a definitive answer on what it was. I did come across a thread where someone mentioned that it could be head gasket material, and with Subarus history with HG's I thought that sounded very possible. A few days later you posted about seeing bubbles in your overflow tank, and the thread I read about they grey stuff being HG material was looking more and more like a possibility.

 

I've only done a coolant flush once 16 years ago, and I don't know how most people do them these days. I'm basically wondering if the flush process created this HG leak, and that there was no HG problem before that. The HG might have been on the verge of leaking, and the flush just did it in. So I wouldn't hold a grudge against the dealer or anyone who inspected the car, I think it might just be crummy luck.

 

And I'm reluctant to say this because it's kinda ghetto, but I wonder if Subaru coolant conditioner or something similar could fix the leak. Based off some of the things I've read here, I'm just worried that the new HG could leak again 100k down the road or something. There's a member on here named GTTuner who really seems to know his stuff, and I remember him saying that he's lost faith in OE Subaru HG's, which scares me. Hopefully others can provide more insight on how reliable newer Subaru HG's are, if maybe the old replacement Head gaskets weren't very good, and Subaru improved the design.

The flush may have dislodged previous Subaru coolant conditioner, which is basically an extra layer of sealant shit to keep the HGs from leaking. I believe at one point, when Subaru was replacing HGs left and right, they'd throw in the coolant conditioner first, and only after the problem persisted, would they actually dig in and replace the gaskets.

So are you guys implying that their coolant flush could have caused my HG issue??

 

Also, is there anything else that could possibye cause hydrocarbon bubbles to show up in my coolant overflow tank?

So are you guys implying that their coolant flush could have caused my HG issue??

 

Also, is there anything else that could possibye cause hydrocarbon bubbles to show up in my coolant overflow tank?

 

I'm in the middle of a HG replacement after getting little black (oil) bubbles in my upper cooling tank and blowing white smoke at autox.

 

If you have hydrocarbon bubbles in the coolant, your HG are going.

 

Aftermarket shop quoted $2000 for HG replacement, not including new radiator or timing belt or water pump. Unless you have the tools (or can borrow them), it gets spendy to replace the HG. To purchase for one-time use brand new, you'd be money ahead to have someone else do it. If you plan to do your own work in the future & can find stuff on CL, it might be worth it to do your own work. Be sure you reach out to the community to line up experienced help before starting.

this is my DD and i have zero experience working on these cars, i will have someone else do it. i had thoughts about selling the car, but...what the hell else would i drive? lol

So are you guys implying that their coolant flush could have caused my HG issue??

 

Also, is there anything else that could possibye cause hydrocarbon bubbles to show up in my coolant overflow tank?

 

Hydrocarbons in your coolant indicate a typical Subaru HG leak-- around the cylinder walls-- where exhaust gasses escape the cylinder and force their way into the water jacket instead. This is why you end up with overpressurized coolant systems (the overfilled coolant reservoir).

gotcha. so definitely hg leak. how about confronting used car dealer on the sale and subaru dealer on bad inspection...don't waste my time?

gotcha. so definitely hg leak. how about confronting used car dealer on the sale and subaru dealer on bad inspection...don't waste my time?

 

You're more than welcome to write a strongly-worded letter and give them bad reviews on Yelp. Other than that, you've got no (legal) recourse.

You're more than welcome to write a strongly-worded letter and give them bad reviews on Yelp. Other than that, you've got no (legal) recourse.

 

Understood. I'll save my time and put it towards more research on whether or not i really want to go Stage 2 with such a fickle car haha

Understood. I'll save my time and put it towards more research on whether or not i really want to go Stage 2 with such a fickle car haha

 

ARP head studs, TiC Cam Bolts (FU bolts), a head refresh and of course, new gaskets and you'll see the next 50k at stage whatever-you-want with next to no major maintenance.

ARP head studs, TiC Cam Bolts (FU bolts), a head refresh and of course, new gaskets and you'll see the next 50k at stage whatever-you-want with next to no major maintenance.

 

can you elaborate on head refresh please?

See page 9 of my rebuild thread. JmP has a list. Start finding machine shops in your area now.

Start finding machine shops in your area now.

 

He already said he had no experience working on cars and would have a shop do it.

Not sure about your state regulations- but one good thing about Massachusetts is we have a lemon law- depends on age and mileage upon purchase but it would come with a 30/60/90 day warranty.. look into your states laws then make the decision

I believe most Lemon Laws only apply to NEW cars sold for the first time.

my car is 7 years old and i am the second owner, i doubt i will benefit from any lemon laws lol

In his defense it does look like MA has a used car lemon law, but from what I've read it sounds like used cars in Colorado are sold as-is.

 

http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/consumer-rights-and-resources/autos/lemon-laws/used-vehicle-warranty-law.html

i'm just going to have to bite the bullet on this one.

 

for the sake of my car's L-T reliability (and simplicity and $$) i am going to go stage 1 w/ exhaust and sell the stage 2 parts i have acquired. i'm probably going to have the Subaru dealer do this HG job, unless i can find a reputable shop in Northern CO that can do it for less. $2,400 seems ok considering they'll give me a loaner car

i'm just going to have to bite the bullet on this one.

 

for the sake of my car's L-T reliability (and simplicity and $$) i am going to go stage 1 w/ exhaust and sell the stage 2 parts i have acquired. i'm probably going to have the Subaru dealer do this HG job, unless i can find a reputable shop in Northern CO that can do it for less. $2,400 seems ok considering they'll give me a loaner car

 

$2400 is waayy too high. Plus, they won't get your heads serviced the right way (if at all), and won't install aftermarket head studs, nor the TiC cam bolts. Shop around. You have time. Remember, I drove my car for over a year in the same condition.

$2400 for HG plus loaner is not bad. Talk to the dealer about having their senior tech do teh work and add the misc crap on there, too.

 

Have you checked in the regional forums for your state? there are shops in CO that work on Subies.

Yeah, shop around. Look for a local shop or Subie guru. I had a very experienced local 1-man shop replace my timing belt. His brother worked at the local Subie dealership, so he had "tech support" if he needed it. He did the job for $250.

^^ that's an extreme example :-)

Talk to SoA too. Your car is older than 6 years, but miles are low enough and they might cut you some slack explaining there was a Subaru dealer inspection just prior to purchase. Lots of stories about them splitting parts and labor costs with owners even outside manufactures warranty.

 

That dealership price isn't bad with a loaner included IMO.

called SoA and they seemed a little taken aback by my request lol but i was just basically asking for any help. they asked who diagnosed my car, who inspected it prior to purchase and who said it was ok to buy, and who quoted me a price on the repair. they should get back to me by next Wed. i doubt they'll help, but worth a shot! thanks BoozeRS05

 

in the meantime i will look into some local non-dealership shops for quotes