Jump to content
LegacyGT.com

Clint's tips and tricks on brakes


Recommended Posts

 

Also, Im inclined to say that autoX cars do not need to be bled that much. Youre never going to get the fluid anywhere near boiling points in that application. Get a high quality fluid and it will last a pretty good amount of time. The GS610 fluid we carry is more dense and adds slightly to the pedal feel.

 

i would generally agree with this, but quite a bit depends on the courses you have setup in your area. I personally have boiled and heated ATE superblue to the point that it came out brown, and smelled/tasted very burnt.

 

 

On the actual bleeding: Avoid pumping the pedal really hard. You want to keep the bubbles as large as possible so you can see them. If you pump the brakes fast/hard, you turn those into little tiny ones.

 

 

Absolutely. stabbing at the pedal will just allow the fluid to flow past the bubbles. it's steady smooth pumps that get them to move along.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 103
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Add my chime to a great writeup.

 

I can only add, when changing the fluid completely, a basting syringe or sauce innoculator works great for getting almost all of the old fluid out of the reservoir.

 

for additional bedding procedures for rotors and pads, Baer has a great pdf.

see www.baer.com . under the tech section.

 

My wife doesn't care to help in my auto endeavors, so I was forced to go to speedbleeders.:) .

 

I have not had any problems with them.

 

O.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Add my chime to a great writeup.

 

I can only add, when changing the fluid completely, a basting syringe or sauce innoculator works great for getting almost all of the old fluid out of the reservoir.

 

for additional bedding procedures for rotors and pads, Baer has a great pdf.

see www.baer.com . under the tech section.

 

My wife doesn't care to help in my auto endeavors, so I was forced to go to speedbleeders.:) .

 

I have not had any problems with them.

 

O.

 

+1 on the reservoir. It helps make the bleed go much faster, since you don't have a whole reservoir of old fluid to pump through the line to get to the new fluid. Plus it's one less trip back to the hood to refill the reservoir ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
Disappointed in the braking of my 2006 LGT, I am planning on installing new pads (probably Hawk HPS, but open to suggestions). Are the ss hoses worth the money/hassel (in terms of major bleeding!) too? This is an aggressively driven street car, but no competition.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a fairly avid brake specialist, I have to agree with everything in the writeup above. I've written several guides similar to this on other boards and it's amazingly the same! Everything from street to race conditions addressed above are dead on. Great stuff.

 

-mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Disappointed in the braking of my 2006 LGT, I am planning on installing new pads (probably Hawk HPS, but open to suggestions). Are the ss hoses worth the money/hassel (in terms of major bleeding!) too? This is an aggressively driven street car, but no competition.

 

SS Lines will increase the pedal feel, but do nothing to help you stop faster.

enough zip ties and duct tape will fix anything.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

why is it a NO NO NO NO to drilled rotors?

 

When you drill a brake rotor you weaken it and cause stress points that can lead to cracking and ultimately failure. Also, drilled rotors lose considerable surface area compared to slotted rotors which means less active braking area for pad to brake rotor contact.
enough zip ties and duct tape will fix anything.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe I have the wrong term, but when I pull up next to a new Porsche Carrera and it has cross-drilled rotors, I find it hard to believe these are such a "no no". Comments?

 

From what Porsche says, the purpose is wet-weather braking "to dissipate water vapor pressure". That said, perhaps they're worse for heat, but better for water.

 

P.S. I do appreciate the thread as I've learned a lot from it. Any recommendations on really good brakes that fit in stock wheels?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe I have the wrong term, but when I pull up next to a new Porsche Carrera and it has cross-drilled rotors, I find it hard to believe these are such a "no no". Comments?

 

From what Porsche says, the purpose is wet-weather braking "to dissipate water vapor pressure". That said, perhaps they're worse for heat, but better for water.

 

P.S. I do appreciate the thread as I've learned a lot from it. Any recommendations on really good brakes that fit in stock wheels?

 

If you can afford a Porsche, you can afford the cost to replace brake rotors. In addition the quality of Porsche parts (or at least a lot of them) is extreme as well as the cost. Drilled rotors and for that matter slotted rotors from many suppliers are just bling.:)

 

Putting better/bigger brakes on the Subie will not make it stop better/shorter. They may provide better feel and could prevent brake fade, but they WILL NOT STOP THE CAR IN A SHORTER DISTANCE.

"Belief does not make truth. Evidence makes truth. And belief does not make evidence."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe I have the wrong term, but when I pull up next to a new Porsche Carrera and it has cross-drilled rotors, I find it hard to believe these are such a "no no". Comments?

 

From what Porsche says, the purpose is wet-weather braking "to dissipate water vapor pressure". That said, perhaps they're worse for heat, but better for water.

 

P.S. I do appreciate the thread as I've learned a lot from it. Any recommendations on really good brakes that fit in stock wheels?

 

If the rotor was originally engineered to have holes through it there isn't a problem other than pad wear. On the other hand, if a blank rotor is simply drilled, you end up with stress concentrations around the holes that the original designer didn't account for. In some cases there's enough margin and the rotor doesn't crack. Other times, there isn't and the rotor does. I guess it is a matter of personal risk tolerance. Are you willing to bet that the guy drilling holes through the rotor knows more about the design than the guy who ran the finite element analysis...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have stock rotors (which Subaru replaced once) and Endless SSMs. My problem is vibration starting when I do, say, three or four 80-50 mph hard brakes. Not sure if it's the rotors, the pads the heat or what. I just want some good, solid braking at high speeds (not the time you want the car shaking from vibrations). Seems to go away when it cools.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

cracked rotors are not uncommon problems with Porsche brakes. And most Porsche brake rotors are CAST with the holes in them!
"Belief does not make truth. Evidence makes truth. And belief does not make evidence."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

cracked rotors are not uncommon problems with Porsche brakes. And most Porsche brake rotors are CAST with the holes in them!

 

There's a $300 bounty on anyone who can provide evidence of cast in holes. That bounty has been around for a few years now, and so far no takers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have stock rotors (which Subaru replaced once) and Endless SSMs. My problem is vibration starting when I do, say, three or four 80-50 mph hard brakes. Not sure if it's the rotors, the pads the heat or what. I just want some good, solid braking at high speeds (not the time you want the car shaking from vibrations). Seems to go away when it cools.

 

+1

 

Did the new rotors elimate the vibration? I got a little shimmy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
I have stock rotors (which Subaru replaced once) and Endless SSMs. My problem is vibration starting when I do, say, three or four 80-50 mph hard brakes. Not sure if it's the rotors, the pads the heat or what. I just want some good, solid braking at high speeds (not the time you want the car shaking from vibrations). Seems to go away when it cools.

 

Definitely off topic, but I have this same issue and I also want it to go away. I thought it was the OEM pads? I would think if the rotors were causing it, it wouldn't go away after cool down.

My other car is a 1993 Chevy S-10 Tahoe! (Currently being driven to failure by my nephew)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a newbie, but after some research and looking at my situation, I think I overheated the pads (900 deg for SSM) and got deposits. I'd definitely get upgraded pads if you have stock.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a $300 bounty on anyone who can provide evidence of cast in holes. That bounty has been around for a few years now, and so far no takers.

 

 

How do I collect?????

"Belief does not make truth. Evidence makes truth. And belief does not make evidence."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

A few more notes on the topic:

1) Bigger brakes do not stop the car any faster. They may give you better pedal feel, and allow you to brake "better", and they will help reduce fade on heavy usage (ie, REAL racing, not street-racing). But a bigger brake doesn't slow the car any better than a stock brake (assuming you can lock up the wheels with the stockers, which most cars can do). Reference this excellent article: http://www.teamscr.com/grmbrakes.html

 

2) Drilled rotors crack under heavy loads, so they are certainly not ideal for performance applications. Again, this article discusses this in a little more detail: http://www.teamscr.com/rotors.html Many quality vendors of slotted and drilled rotors will even tell you that they don't recommend drilled ones for track use.

 

3) Often, people say that performance vehicles use drilled rotors for performance reasons. Well, I happened to notice a blurb on brakes during the last F1 race I watched, and saw what they use on F1 cars:

 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/3/24/921208/F1%20Brake%20Rotor2.jpg

 

Notice no slots, and no drilled holes. Sure, these are crazy expensive "carbon" rotors (as he described them)... but the point remains... they don't use slots OR drilled holes. In fact, they talked about how small these rotors are, and how they use the special materials to manage the heat aspect of the heavy braking they do on the track. (I have the entire ~1.5 minute segment, if anyone is interested in seeing it...)

 

In fact, look at it this way - if you want better braking, you want more pad-to-rotor contact. More holes and slots reduce this contact, and hence reduce braking performance. Sure, you can make up for the difference with a larger rotor, but this isn't the logical line of thinking that most people take up... and it simply reinforces the point that these features don't increase braking performance.

 

I reserve judgement on the slotted rotor question, though I suspect that a quality pad will eliminate the need for that feature as well. But, at least it's not as bad and dangerous as a drilled rotor.

 

As for the "bounty" on the cast-in Porsche rotor... this has been covered many times, but I will admit I don't have a reliable (ie, non-internet-post based) source for this. I'm still looking, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...

Good info for sure. First time I've done brakes on a Subaru. Have done them on GM products. So question is which way do the bolts turn off. Can't budge them. Broke a wrench trying. Concern is if they are reverse threads. Any help appreciated.:redface:

Sandy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good info for sure. First time I've done brakes on a Subaru. Have done them on GM products. So question is which way do the bolts turn off. Can't budge them. Broke a wrench trying. Concern is if they are reverse threads. Any help appreciated.:redface:

Sandy

 

same problem, mine were on extremely tight. i havent attempted anymore after i failed a few weeks ago. i will try my air tools next.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...
Maybe I have the wrong term, but when I pull up next to a new Porsche Carrera and it has cross-drilled rotors, I find it hard to believe these are such a "no no". Comments?

 

From what Porsche says, the purpose is wet-weather braking "to dissipate water vapor pressure". That said, perhaps they're worse for heat, but better for water.

 

P.S. I do appreciate the thread as I've learned a lot from it. Any recommendations on really good brakes that fit in stock wheels?

 

 

Porchse rotors are cast like that, not drilled, so there's no extra stress added to the rotor. However, you will still have stress concentrations, but thats just the engineer in me talking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use