Request by a newbie - suspension question

Hello all,

I am currently thinking about purchasing a new Legacy GT, and on my shortlist of mods is installing an aftermarket suspension. I am thinking about going with Bilstein HD struts and STI pink springs, or possibly RCE Tarmac 1 coilovers.

Would anybody in Boston be willing to give me a test ride in your car if you happen to have either of the setups above?

I know it's a huge request; thank you very much in advance if you agree.

If anybody would be willing to give some reviews or comments on those setups here, that would be great too (and I have been searching and reading this site for the past month on almost all the reviews)

P.S. - Just so y'all know where I'm coming from, I currently have KW V3 coilovers on my VW R32. It's fun on road courses, but daily driving is a bit harsh; I think my tired bones have had enough of the pounding on crappy roads around Boston. I'm hoping the Bilstein/STi combo isn't too bad, and I keep on dreaming (maybe hopelessly) that the Tarmac 1 won't be too harsh with their vehicle-specific valving.

Chris

I have an 05 Legacy GT with Bilstein REV A's and Pinks... and I live in Boston!

But, I have many other suspension mods, too many to list off, that would also affect the impression of the bilst/pink setup when driving it. I can say that the springs and strut combo is very drivable, but my car's suspension is probably exactly the type of ride quality your are looking to move away from, with your R32.

The HD Bilsteins are very similar to the spec Bs, which I think are very similar to the Revision A JDM GT (not JDM Spec-B) Struts that I am rocking... So it would be very close to what you are looking for...

I am installing the Tarmac 1's this spring, and currently have Konis/Swifts (which I would not recommend for Boston BTW). I live in central MA so meeting up for a ride is tough, but maybe at a meet sometime?

The Tarmac 1's are just revalved KW V.2's. The spring rate is the same (400/400 or 7/7) but you can order a custom rate if you want... It is very helpful to simply talk to Myles @ RCE directly.

Thanks all for the responses so far.

sportwagon - Given the pink spring rates and what I have experienced in other cars with Bilstein HD's, I'm not too concerned with the liveability of the ride. What other kind of suspension mods have you done that affect your ride? I should mention that I also have large adjustable sway bars on my car, coupled with the coilovers that I pretty much had set on stiff for 3 years with camber plates. They dampened very well, but the car tended to be a bit bouncy at low, around-town speeds.

underdog - a meet would be good sometime. I'll keep my eye on this board for meets. I actually did call RCE a week ago to ask about the Ohlins fixed struts - unfortunately, they said they do not carry them anymore, since they only sold 2 or 3 of them over a few years. The person on the phone said that one of the people working there had Bilsteins and Swifts, I believe. After reading all the posts, I get the feeling the STI pinks may still be a better choice for me, especially around Boston.

I've read all the reviews and comments on the Tarmac 1's, and I get the itch to look into those, but despite the reduced spring rates, my experience with my KW around town makes me a bit leary. When you get them installed, I would be very interested in hearing your opinion on them (to add to the several I've read already - almost all high praise, with one not so high praise).

How do you find the Konis as far as damping? I've actually had a third thought of sending some struts to Koni Racing Services to see if they'll custom build and valve some legacy struts, then pair them with pink springs. They did some custom building on struts for my Porshe 914, so...

ncretter - as far as I know (after doing research on struts and springs, and taking my opinion as a newbie with a grain of salt), the Bilstein HD require the SpecB top hats.

HD's require spec b bits for the fronts, optional for the backs from what I can gather. all of the spec B bits can be purchased from your dealer, or, or you havent purchased the HD's yet, the KINGOFPARTS (a vendor on this board) sells a Bilstein HD and Spec B tophats and pieces package http://www.5-starperformance.com/servlet/the-987/Bilstein-Legacy-GT-Suspension/Detail ....has everything you need.

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61108

^^^this thread has a lot of information about the JDM and USDM stock suspensions and the possibilities for swaps. if you go about 3/4 the way down the first POST there is a section that says "I want to install Bilsteins, what do I need?" and it lists the part numbers for ya.

I already have my pinks, i'm waiting till spring time to buy the HD's and get them installed. I wanted to give one winter a run on the stock suspension, and it will also be nice to have the extra ride height for the snow.

underdog - a meet would be good sometime. I'll keep my eye on this board for meets. I actually did call RCE a week ago to ask about the Ohlins fixed struts - unfortunately, they said they do not carry them anymore, since they only sold 2 or 3 of them over a few years. The person on the phone said that one of the people working there had Bilsteins and Swifts, I believe. After reading all the posts, I get the feeling the STI pinks may still be a better choice for me, especially around Boston.

I've read all the reviews and comments on the Tarmac 1's, and I get the itch to look into those, but despite the reduced spring rates, my experience with my KW around town makes me a bit leary. When you get them installed, I would be very interested in hearing your opinion on them (to add to the several I've read already - almost all high praise, with one not so high praise).

How do you find the Konis as far as damping? I've actually had a third thought of sending some struts to Koni Racing Services to see if they'll custom build and valve some legacy struts, then pair them with pink springs. They did some custom building on struts for my Porshe 914, so...

Just want to reiterate, the T1's come standard with the same exact spring rate as the KW V.2's. Alternates are available but RCE recommends the standard 400/400.

IMO, if you want to maintain a comfortable ride around Boston, you need either Bilsteins or Konis + stock springs, or a quality coilover, depending on how stiff you want the ride. I say this because with conventional strut/shocks like the Bils or Konis, you need as much suspension travel as possible and there are no stiffer stock-length springs available. This option will give you better damping which will promote a sporty grand touring sort of ride. Coilovers (using the Tarmac 1 as an example) will give you increased spring rate over stock to keep the car nice and flat, and will give you increased suspension travel, provided you don't slam the car.

The sad fact is that our cars have barely any suspension travel to begin with, so lowering the car (even with appropriately increased rates) means you are riding on the bump-stops most of the time. I can tell you that recent trips into the Allston/Brighton area have been awful with my Swifts. I love the Konis for their damping and adjustment, but they just don't have the stroke available to support a lowering spring.

Wait, wut? I am amazed with how much travel the suspension actually has. Freaks me out everytime how high I have to jack the car to get a wheel off. Certainly seems to be above average suspension travel versus other cars in the class, especially in the front. I think we lost some rear travel after the switching over from struts in the rear though.

Anyway, JDM wagon RevA Spec B combo here in Boston, found the car rides better than stock when handling bumps (damped much better), although ride is stiffer. There's a hint of Honda cut spring hop on smooth pavement with tiny little ripples

 

The sad fact is that our cars have barely any suspension travel to begin with, so lowering the car (even with appropriately increased rates) means you are riding on the bump-stops most of the time.

 

Wait, wut? I am amazed with how much travel the suspension actually has. Freaks me out everytime how high I have to jack the car to get a wheel off. Certainly seems to be above average suspension travel versus other cars in the class, especially in the front. I think we lost some rear travel after the switching over from struts in the rear though.

 

Anyway, JDM wagon RevA Spec B combo here in Boston, found the car rides better than stock when handling bumps (damped much better), although ride is stiffer. There's a hint of Honda cut spring hop on smooth pavement with tiny little ripples

Yes, it has plenty of droop travel, but very little compression travel.

Underdog is right.

FWIW w/ the KW2s or RCE T1s you can jack up the front wheel, and rear will come off the ground too. Makes tire swaps a lot easier.

Suspension compression and droop are fairly equal with the above two coil-overs.

FWIW the Bilstein specific top-hats make a very noticeable improvement in performance, turn-in is sharper, feel is much better. NVH (at most) is up marginally. You likely will not notice it.

If you do get one of the above two coil-overs it is worth it to get the Bilstein specific top-hats.

I don't think that the pinks are that bad for Boston... as long as they are paired with bilsteins of some form or another. The stock struts worked OK with pinks for a brief period, but quickly gave up with the extra workload and eventually enough was enough and the suspension became bouncy! Not as bouncy as stock... but then again when I was stock I didn't have sways...

Anyway, I don't know enough about the swifts... but the pinks are well worth the $$$... Even for Beantown... as long as you upgrade the struts, too!

As for my supporting suspension mods... Here's what I'm currently riding around with:

Chassis/Suspension:

JDM Legacy STi Sport Spring Set – Pink

JDM Legacy GT Bilstein Struts – Rev. A

½” Saggy Butt Shims for the rear (w/ new studs pressed into the top hats)

Spec B Aluminum Front Lower Control Arms

SuperPro Polyurethane Camber-Increasing LCA Bushings

STi Training Arms w/ ball-bearing bushing– Painted Blue w/ Silver STi logos

Cusco Front Sway Bar 23mm – Blue

Cusco Rear Sway Bar 21mm – Blue

AVO Front & Rear Adjustable Endlinks (AVO Solid Endlinks to be installed)

Cobb Rear Sway Bar Reinforcement Bracket Kit

STi Upper Strut Bar

Cusco Front Lower Brace – Blue

Cusco Rear Lower Brace – Blue

Underdog is right.

 

FWIW w/ the KW2s or RCE T1s you can jack up the front wheel, and rear will come off the ground too. Makes tire swaps a lot easier.

 

 

This also is the case with the Bils/pinks... I can jack up the car at the front jacking point and if I go high enough I can change both the front and rear wheels... I like to put jackstands on the rear jackpoints, a good practice any time, but it is very convienent to only have to jack up the car twice to change four tires.

Before I had a lowered car (and the Rallitek skidplate) I used to jack the car from the tranny and the rear diff... still only two jacks, but it was not as easy... and kind of shady!

Thanks guys for the responses.

underdog - your report on the swift springs in Allston/Brighton was what I expected. I live in Brookline, right next to Allston/Brighton, so I know what you are talking about. I am actually sort of okay with the KW V3 on my car - I have them set at the highest ride height possible, and the ride is pretty good at speed, but at low speeds, the car isn't necessarily harsh but there is a lot of body movement. I've even considered Ohlins coilovers, since I've ridden in several Audi's with Ohlins coilovers, and they ride amazingly well with 700+ lb spring rates, but then I haven't ridden in them in the Boston DMZ either, and the subaru is going to be my daily driver only; no dual purpose track use. I should add that I do want to slightly lower the car; maybe I have to change my expectations. Hopefully, I'll be able to hitch a ride in a bunch of different setups so I can get some first-hand experience.

Well, I guess I'll wait till I actually get the Legacy before I make a decision. Look forward to meeting some of you guys at some car meets.