fishbone Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Speak up. I am sure I am not the only one. I have a set of Hawk HPS on my Legacy. They are mediocre at best. Had them on for a couple years now. I am opening this thread because I put them on my Mini and they are not just mediocre, they actually absolutely suck and I can't figure out why. I used to think they were one of the best street pads one can buy but now I think I may be completely wrong. I already have a thread going about the Mini on the Mini forums, but if you guys are curious ... I had the pads replaced, rotors turned (still within factory spec). I followed the bed-in procedure. Pads still sucked. Couldn't even get the ABS to kick in no matter how hard I braked. Had the fluid flushed since it was old anyways. It helped by a noticeable amount as far as pedal feel, but the pads still feel like they're blocks of wood. Followed the bed-in procedure again. Twice. No dice. If I slam on the brakes at 60, no ABS. On the BMW OEM pads, even though those things were dusty as hell, I slammed on the brakes going 50, tires squealing and ABS screaming. I hate them now and I hate the fact that I am going to have to pull a set of pads and replace them after I had already paid someone to do it I basically robbed the Mini of one of the notable characteristics, and that is outstanding brake feel and performance, as is typical of most German cars. On the Legacy? Meh at best. They basically work, I guess. What's been your experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Me. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 There was a lot of dry-humping them from what I remember on this forum, that's how I ended up with a set. Don't even know what the hell I was thinking when I ordered them for the second car when I didn't consider them an upgrade for my first. Goes to show, rao, that not everything you read on the internet is true. I am sure you did not know this, so I am happy to inform you of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TT- Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 There was a lot of dry-humping them from what I remember on this forum, that's how I ended up with a set. i think the term you were looking for there was "sackriding" and not "dry humping" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
executor485 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Maybe I just had crappy stock pads, but they helped me. However, I do think that my wife's Lexus has better braking than my LGT. So I'm pretty sure that there are better options out there, but at what cost too. For the price, Hawks arent bad. Whats the price diff in stock mini pads vs the hawks? I hate to be the guy who says the more expensive it is the better it must be, but in many cases relating to performance car parts, it truly is a matter of price/quality. If I pass you on the right, I'm flipping you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Thanks for sharing. When I posted that I disliked the Hawk pads I was met with a barrage of hate from people who seems to have entirely too much emotional energy invested in their choice of brake pad. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
executor485 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 too much emotional energy invested Can we find a way to harness that power and turn it into real performance/braking? Now, you'd probably be missing out cause you're completely devoid of emotion, but for the fanbois... If I pass you on the right, I'm flipping you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 That hurts Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil2k2 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Funny, I just had Hawk HPS and Centric rotors put on my LGT yesterday. It was a dramatic improvement over the OEM pads/rotors. I no longer have a squishy pedal and feel I can modulate the brakes much better. I can't give credit to either the pads or the rotors individually, but the combination is much much better than OEM. I didn't read much hype before I purchased the pads, so I'm not sure how lofty the expectations are, but I'm happy with the improvement thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lieutenantcolumbo Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I did a lot of searching before I swapped my pads and decided neither of the Hawk pads was for me. Ended up going with StopTech Street Performance pads all around. Dusty, consistent (cold or hot), but definitely a big improvement over stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 Whats the price diff in stock mini pads vs the hawks? Trust me that I am looking into that very same issue. But so far, dealer cost vs shopping around online a bit, the difference seems to be by about 50 bucks for all corners OEM vs HPS. And as I posted elsewhere, not being able to engage ABS in a stopping emergency on dry pavement is where I draw the line. Anything else leading to that point can very well be subjective. Also, having to follow a bed-in procedure, and on top of it be suggested you need to follow it up and/or maintain it, to me spells shitty product. This is something I was told by someone other than Hawk, should be noted, but anyone that puts up with something like that got screwed. Brake pads should be a no-brainer, otherwise we'd see idiots daily "stopping firmly from 40 for x times" on the roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
executor485 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Are the OEM more expensive? I'm assuming yes. It could be that OEM is actually a higher quality pad (usually not the case, but when you're talking "higher performance" vehicles, it does happen). If I pass you on the right, I'm flipping you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 The OEM come out to be more expensive by about 50-80 bucks for fronts+backs depending on where you buy them from. There are several vendors carrying them. While I could go with something like Carbontech, I really don't want to find myself in this very same situation. The only qualm I ever had about the stock pads was the ridiculous amount of dust. You see it on the road on all BMWs, Benz, Audis, even on the Japs: the front rims have a noticeably darker color than the rear. If I'd leave the car unwashed, it would only take a month for the front rims to take on a very dark charcoal color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I tried StopTech first which quickly ruined a brand new set of cryo rotors. I replaced the rear rotors thinking they were the only ones that were bad. At the same time I put Hawks on the back with the new rotors. Still getting vibration and the front rotors looked good so I just threw a new set of Hawk pads on the front in place of the StopTech. Still with the vibration and I assume the front rotors are fubar as well.. At this point I'm likely going to replace the front rotors once more, but brakes on this car have been a real nightmare. Neither the StopTech nor the Hawk seemed any better than stock and both seemed considerably worse in any kind of wet weather.. At this point I don't know what brakes are best. I'm going to stick with the Hawks I guess since they're new.. What sucks is doing the whole brake job twice within a few months could have bought me a Brembo upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 Exactly. I'm preparing myself for Hawk to tell me to go pound sand, so that's about $150 plus another $200-some. So that's $350 that could have gone towards a nice Brembo upgrade or other things. This thread's purpose is to be a warning that things may not be all rosy with Hawk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lieutenantcolumbo Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I tried StopTech first which quickly ruined a brand new set of cryo rotors. I replaced the rear rotors thinking they were the only ones that were bad. At the same time I put Hawks on the back with the new rotors. Still getting vibration and the front rotors looked good so I just threw a new set of Hawk pads on the front in place of the StopTech. Still with the vibration and I assume the front rotors are fubar as well.. At this point I'm likely going to replace the front rotors once more, but brakes on this car have been a real nightmare. What brand of rotors were those, ebay? Want to make sure I avoid them. I just used stock OEM's w/ no problems. Are the rotors warping or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Exactly. I'm preparing myself for Hawk to tell me to go pound sand, so that's about $150 plus another $200-some. So that's $350 that could have gone towards a nice Brembo upgrade or other things. This thread's purpose is to be a warning that things may not be all rosy with Hawk. Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation on this site that gets perpetuated by people with no real knowledge or experience of the parts they're touting.. Hawks, Intakes, Oils etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 Don't forget about drilled/slotted rotors. All Subarus should come OEM with those, or the fact that it is OK to do that to an OEM rotor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
executor485 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 YMMV, on the LGT, to me its an upgrade. On a BMW, maybe not so much. If I pass you on the right, I'm flipping you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 It was an upgrade for me as well. I mean, anything starting at 1% better stopping, plus a reasonable price, can be considered an upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 What brand of rotors were those, ebay? Want to make sure I avoid them. I just used stock OEM's w/ no problems. Are the rotors warping or what? I bought a full set of 4 cryo tech rotors with the StopTech pads. The rears were streaked with the StopTech pad material almost immediately. I replaced the rears only with new cryo rotors and hawk pads and still have similar (though less) vibration. At that point I got a front set of Hawks and installed them and still have the vibrations on braking. I never really bought that rotors warped, but at this point the front rotors appear to be warped.. Before I installed the new pads I cleaned all the old pad material off the rotors and have done several good break-in passes.. I think a new set of front rotors will solve the problem at this point, but then I've got brakes that work like shit in the wet.. Honestly at this point though I would be happy just not to have pedal vibration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldiablo Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Funny, I just had Hawk HPS and Centric rotors put on my LGT yesterday. It was a dramatic improvement over the OEM pads/rotors. I no longer have a squishy pedal and feel I can modulate the brakes much better. I can't give credit to either the pads or the rotors individually, but the combination is much much better than OEM. I have to agree. After going with Hawk HPS pads only, the car felt the same as stock (or slightly worse). After going with Centric rotors + new HPS pads + synthetic brake fluid, the car feels much improved over stock. Probably no thanks to the pads though. My VB Garage... Pumping the air back into despair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 My brake fluid had the color of coffee. After having it flushed with synthetic, it was ultimately the element which truly improved braking over stock rather than the Hawks imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 When I posted that I disliked the Hawk pads I was met with a barrage of hate from people who seems to have entirely too much emotional energy invested in their choice of brake pad. There's a lot of that about! I'm also running the Hawks. Honestly, the stock WRX pads were so bad whoever spec'd them for the car needs a good kick in the ass. The Hawks are better than the stock pads in that do they take more heat. OTOH they squeal a bit, rotor wear seems higher than with the stockers and feel is pretty 'meh'. Will try something else next time. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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