I blew my chavaaa!!!

First and foremost. Thank you all for the time and effort you have invested in these forums, the amount of information is fantastic and overwhelming! Also, thank you for being a pretty badass forum and keeping a light attitude.

 

So, aside the terrible Total Recal title... I haven't posted in a long time. I have read a lot of the great information you guys have here, including the Turbo FAQ, Tris's shopping list, the engine code list and many more, I can't even keep track. I know the overall consensus will be #YNASB however, even with the cheapest options I can't afford to rebuild right now... So, as per the instructions for the build threads I will tell my story.

 

I've had the LGT for over 3 years now and absolutely love it, so the passion for a rebuild is not in any way lacking and will eventually happen. Over the course of this time I've been fixing the small things as I'm able considering the other expensive hobbies (Woman, motorcycles, guns, bicycles - I like things that go boom, OK?! )

 

I finally decided to take the car out High Plains Raceway for my 30th birthday and I SHOULD have removed the banjo bolt screens before going, however, I didn't have time, now I'm going to pay for that lack of planning. Anyway, the car ran great and I pulled a 2:24 on some pretty crappy sporty 3 season street tires which is as fast as I get my motorcycle around there, so not terribly bad. Toward the end of the day the power cut out for a bit. I thought maybe a fueling issue so I topped off. It got better for a few laps including my fastest lap and then it started loosing power with a quickness.

 

no smoke, no funny smell, no funny noises, no error codes (checked last night with a buddy's Snap-on Solus Ultra), just no power. Tore into the car but didn't have enough time to get all the way into the turbo to give it a spin.

 

So, I'm new to wrenching on the LGT and turbos, but not to wrenching. I've completely rebuild my ninja 250 and although it's small, an engine is an engine, no? I'm no expert either and I certainly know when I don't know something. So, I have read a lot of the info here, but not even close to all, can you all help me sift through all of it and find the bits that will help me diagnose this as quickly as possible (obviously turbo inspection needs to happen ASAP).

 

What is the long-term plan? Reliability. The car is plenty fast and a very comfortable DD. I doubt it will see the track again for a few decades as I'd like to keep it long enough to gift it to my child one day. If the kid likes motorsports, we could then convert it into a track car or something faster. So, stock as possible with the focus on modifications which will help get it to 350,000 miles as stress free as possible.

 

IF it's the turbo, I'd like to get it rebuild or a beefed stock replacement and see if I can nurse it through until next year at which time a full rebuild would be much more viable unless going NA at this point is a better option - but I think that might be more expensive than just replacing the turbo?

 

Thanks for sticking through my logorrhea and I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say!

 

EDIT: moving shopping list from second page to first post for easier tracking/updating.

- New Turbo - INSTALLED

- Turbo bolts replacing studs - Didn't do.

- de-cat uppipe - DONE

- New Oil cooler - INSTALLED

- New Oil Pump seal - INSTALLED

- New Oil control valves - INSTALLED

- New bolts where required - INSTAlLED

- New power steering pump - INSTALLED

- New water pump - INSTALLED

- New Thermostat - INSTALLED

- Driver's side front half-shaft - NOT NEEDED

- Transmission half-shaft seal - INSTALLED

- New Clutch Kit - INSTALLED

- New gaskets - INSTALLED

- Tuned by CryoTune - DONE

- Remove banjo filters - DONE

- Rebuild power steering - IMPOSSIBLE

- Replace power steering pump - DONE

 

Added oil report from Blackstone Labs for anybody else who might attempt this:

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=217718&d=1444253187

Hi, welcome. Thanks for the shout-out.

 

What is chavaa?

 

First order of business should be a compression and leakdown, and an inspection of the turbo.

 

But, yes, probably #ynansb.

You are well aware that a turbo inspection is #1. The lack of power seems consistent with a blown turbo, but you won't know until you look. Any chance the lack of power was just extreme heat-soak?

 

IF the turbo is bad, then the next steps are determined by how the turbo went. In my case, there was no lack of power but an inspection showed the turbine wheel had been ever-so-slightly contacting the housing. I replaced with BNR 16G ASAP to prevent future issues. Two years later it's still running strong.

 

If the turbo has major contact to the housing or have broken/majorly failed in some other fashion you will now have metal particles in the oil system and throughout the engine. Unfortunately, it's just a matter of time at this point before you need a new shortblock (#YNANSB). So, without knowing what exactly is wrong it will be hard to tell you how to proceed.

 

Based on what you wrote I'm assuming the car is stock. If you want reliability keep it that way, but get it off the stock tune. Stage 0/1 is what you want here. It's safer for the engine and better to drive. It sounds like you are already addressing the known issues with these cars (banjo bolts for example).

 

You should really re-evaluate the 350k miles goal. On the stock engine/turbo that is just incredibly unlikely to happen. Check the highest mileage LGT thread for an idea of what is needed to get that far. The body/chassis/suspension may last (damper excluded), but the engine/turbo just won't. To reliably make it to 350k miles with this car you should have at least 2 short blocks on hand - seriously.

 

Finally, we know you love your car and want to keep it forever, but these are NOT good cars for first-time drivers. They require a LOT of patience, maintenance, and $$$ as they get older, which is not something a new driver has. They are also, IMO, too much car for a newly-licensed driver.

 

Hope this helps, and welcome back

@MrTris

 

@ras06LGT - haha, I'm sorry, I could see how you take me as a first time driver... I'm 30, and this would be my 10th? car. I've had a few and wrenched on more.

 

Along with that, thanks for the information about the tune - I'll be reading up on that! And yes, I realize a few rebuilds might be required to reach 350,000.

 

Then again they said 100K couldn't be done on a ninja 250, and thus far I'm 30K away...

 

I'll post up when I know more about the turbo...

I was referring to your comment about gifting it to your kid one day. I saw the race day was for your 30th, so I knew you had been driving for a while.

oh oh oh, good point! Derp...

 

Well, it will teach the kid proper maintenance as the consequences will be heavy, but yes. Luckily there are many years in between then and now, so we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

I gave my son the 1992 Civic Si that I bought new when he was 5y/o, he learned to drive on that car and by age 19 ran a 9.85ET (see picture in avatar). That's not going to happen with a Legacy GT.

 

Read my click here link in my sig for what you should do. The ej257 turned 50,000 miles on a 5 hour drive in a snowstorm in northern Maine on the back roads last week.

 

Get the hint. It's all in the tune.

Finally got the turbo out. Man, now I remember why I prefer working on motorcycles.... Also, no idea how I'm going to get that tube on the bottom of the turbo back on...

 

Here is a video of both sides. I'm thinking the shaft melted, but very little if any metal bits entered the engine?

http://youtu.be/RuVhKCJw0dg

Bolt the turbo back on the up pipe remove the studs.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCN4783.jpg

 

bolts come from the dealer, they are the same one that bolt the up pipe bracket to the block.

 

Remove the filter on the banjo bolt located in the hole in this oil tube.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCN4770.jpg

I gave my son the 1992 Civic Si that I bought new when he was 5y/o, he learned to drive on that car and by age 19 ran a 9.85ET (see picture in avatar). That's not going to happen with a Legacy GT.

 

Read my click here link in my sig for what you should do. The ej257 turned 50,000 miles on a 5 hour drive in a snowstorm in northern Maine on the back roads last week.

 

Get the hint. It's all in the tune.

 

Yeah, I'd say you found your problem. You should drain the oil, drop the pan, and check for metal to see if you perhaps got incredibly lucky with this one. That turbo wasn't far away from going kaboom.

 

Max Capacity's tips on bolting the turbo to the up pipe are spot on. I took that route when re-installing mine and it makes lining up all the hoses so much easier. Reduces the risk of tearing the turbo intake too.

Tearing the turbo inlet when I installed the vf52 in Aug 2011 is why I changed to bolts.

 

FWIW, I find it easy to loosen those 3 bolts when installing the IPR tmic after major work.

 

here's the process if the tmic is a PITA to line up.

 

loosen those 3 bolts or nuts that hold turbo on up pipe, stick the tmic into the TB hose, start the 2 bolts that hold the tmic on the turbo outlet, start the bolts for the support bracket, tighten TB hose clamp, tighten 2 bolts at turbo outlet, tighten 3 bolts or nuts at turbo to up pipe, tighten support bracket.

 

Next time you remove the tmic it should drop right back on.

 

That's assuming you didn't remove the TB hose from the TB and tmic. If you can always leave that hose on one of them.

Max Capacity, remove the studs from up pipe with a vice grip or two locked bolts? This sounds like a silly question, but I have no frame of reference on how difficult these things should be to remove and I have a nasty tendency to break things so knowing what is "too much" helps me out big time....

Max Capacity, remove the studs from up pipe with a vice grip or two locked bolts? This sounds like a silly question, but I have no frame of reference on how difficult these things should be to remove and I have a nasty tendency to break things so knowing what is "too much" helps me out big time....

 

Don't vise-grip the stud itself, you'll wreck the threads. You'll want to use a double-nut method. You'll need at least one flanged nut for it to work right. .

Like Tris said two nuts. lock them together on the stud, then back off the lower nut against the upper nut, if you have them locked tight together the stud should twist out.

 

PB Blaster on the threads in the up pipe is a good idea.

 

google, double nut.

Ive seen your video, thats not too bad at all considering how far you legged it home.

 

Your engine probably didnt ingest much metal via the intake. However, for the shaft to be wobbling that much the bearing inside the turbo has taken a beating. When the bearing fails it literally shits all the little bits and pieces of itself straight into the oil pan to be picked up by the oil pan and dispersed to every corner of your engine..

 

Your options as are follows:

 

1- #YNANSB and a jmp vf40 with the upgraded center section

 

2- You like to live dangerously, just replace the turbo with a jmp vf40 and the upgraded center section, replace the bare minimums like oil pump, oil cooler, oil control valves and perform the jmp flush (super top secret).

 

If #2 doesnt work, you're back at #1.

 

 

You have my # we will chat more later.

Ive seen your video, thats not too bad at all considering how far you legged it home.

 

Your engine probably didnt ingest much metal via the intake. However, for the shaft to be wobbling that much the bearing inside the turbo has taken a beating. When the bearing fails it literally shits all the little bits and pieces of itself straight into the oil pan to be picked up by the oil pan and dispersed to every corner of your engine..

 

Your options as are follows:

 

1- #YNANSB and a jmp vf40 with the upgraded center section

 

2- You like to live dangerously, just replace the turbo with a jmp vf40 and the upgraded center section, replace the bare minimums like oil pump, oil cooler, oil control valves and perform the jmp flush (super top secret).

 

If #2 doesnt work, you're back at #1.

 

 

You have my # we will chat more later.

 

This is where it'd be nice to have a picture of a totally destroyed journal bearing and a picture of the screen on the oil pickup tube, just to show how fine of a mesh it isn't.

 

 

Also, Spoop, if this is going to turn into a rebuild thread where you're gonna take on the job yourself, please move your thread to the Build Threads subforum.

I was finally able to drop the oil pan and take a look.

 

Ended up removing part of the exhaust as well to be able to wiggle it out without getting hung up on something. What do you guys think, can I get away with just gratuitous flushing? Still waiting on the postal service to get the turbo delivered to John.

Yours looks considerably better than mine did, and I didn't limp it home 80 mi

 

 

Tris, I'm gonna wait for the diagnosis from John and Blackstone before I move this into the build thread as I'm not sure this is a build thread yet. Might still be just a repair...

Tris, I'm gonna wait for the diagnosis from John and Blackstone before I move this into the build thread as I'm not sure this is a build thread yet. Might still be just a repair...

 

Sounds like a plan!

Might want to flush the oil cooler too...or replace it ?

Currently on the list thanks to great detail from AMileHighGT:

- New Turbo

- New Oil cooler

- New Oil Pump

- New Oil control valves

- Remove banjo filters

- New gaskets

- New bolts where required

- Turbo bolts replacing studs.

- de-cat uppipe

- Rebuild power steering

- New water pump

- Driver's side front half-shaft

- Transmission half-shaft seal.

 

The list might grow pending info from John and Blackstone.

so pulled more bits off the bottom of the engine. Photos attached. Got the report back from Blackstone:

 

"Lead was a little high in this sample. And, to be honest, most metals were a bit elevated considering

just 100 hours on the oil. Aluminum can show accelerated piston wear, iron is from steel, and copper shows

brass/bronze wear. Lead is the only metal out of line enough to mark, but the other metals aren't too far

behind. Averages for this engine are based on about 3,800 miles on the oil. No contamination turned up

that would account for this metal. Are you looking for trouble, or just trying to get a baseline? We'd change

this oil within 2,000 miles or so."

 

I've been quiet and progress has been slow because: wedding planning.

Also, I finished cracking the Audi loaner's bumper in half, so that' in my garage getting glassed right now as well.

Also, my ninja has a bad ground, so trying to sort that out.

Also, rebuilding some carbs for a friend in need...

 

So, never mind the excuses. Am I the luckiest guy alive or am I too excited and not reading those stats correctly?

 

Also, USPS lost my turbo. They say it's somewhere between here and there, but they have no idea where in the between...

 

Too bad text doesn't transfer tone, cause this probably sounds pretty depressed and/or angry, however, I am not. Just focused and busy. Thanks to all who've helped and will continue to help! This forum rocks. Hopefully I'll be in a better place to give back in a few months.

Also, been searching but my head is spinning, so please help me find this info:

 

Questions:

1.) anybody got a link for front badge removal? I want to plastidip the chrome on the grill while it's off the car, and modify the badge with an autobot replacement. Want to do it to the back as well, but that will come later. One thing at a time.

2.) link to OCV location/replacement.

 

Added to list of things to do:

- de-cat uppipe

I do not have the replacements already, should I before pulling them, or will a rag in the hole suffice until I can get the replacements?