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VF39 with a TMIC????


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Long time listener, first time caller......

 

So I recently bought a '08 LGT and my upgrades progressed MUCH more rapidly than I originally planned. Needless to say I bought some stuff without doing all of my proper research. To the point...

 

I bought a VF39 turbo and I thought that it would (more or less) be a straight bolt-on. Then I found out that I may be required to get a FMIC. I was hoping to avoid this, which brings me to my Q...

 

Is there a way to mount a VF39 and still use a TMIC? It doesn't necessarily have to be the factory unit. I know the factory unit isn't up for heavy loads but, I kinda need to reel in my spending.

 

Thanks for all the future help.

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OK, did some looking and I have found that the VF52 you speak of is very similar to the VF48. And the 52/48 are slightly smaller (flow less) than the 39. The major difference being the 52 is a direct bolt-on.

 

Sound logic, yes??

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This thread hurts my head. Someone needs to do an intervention. :redface:

 

Froggy, try to take this in. You are in WAY over your head. This is a sensitive car to mods. Not knowing what you are doing IS going to bite you in the ass. Maybe HARD. If is upsets you, that just means you don't realize how much you don't know. Additionally you, yourself said, YOU NEED TO REEL IN YOUR SPENDING. Going stage 3 is not an efficient use of your money for modding. The by far biggest bang, lowest maintenance, most reliable mod for these cars is just a downpipe and a tune - basic stage 2 (with perhaps some reinforcement of the oem intercooler).

 

Upgrades progressing MUCH more rapidly than originally planning without having a reputable subaru tuner shop to lead you often don't end well. I've even heard of people buying the wrong fitment turbo.:redface: Not doing your proper research is a major mistake in these cars. You need to decide if you are willing to put the time into research or if you are going to find a shop to take care of you. Asking us to do your research that could be found with basic google and forum searches is very concerning. To mount a vf39 you either have to swap a sti style setup (manifold, tb, tmic, etc), use an fmic or a custom setup.

 

OK, did some looking and I have found that the VF52 you speak of is very similar to the VF48.

 

:eek: The vf48 is similar to a vf43 that is similar to a vf39. You are digging your car a grave. You need to read these and understand them BEFORE buying a turbo.:redface:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/attn-new-members-look-here-first-67940.html

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/begin-modifications-your-legacy-gt-19037.html

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/bulletproof-tmic-mod-lgt-08-wrx-158870.html

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turboi-wiki-twist-178684.html

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/unofficial-legacy-gt-stage-upgrade-definitions-48123.html

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/complete-beginners-guide-e-tuning-vendor-and-vag-com-cable-158118.html

 

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR HOMEWORK!:)

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Here are your options to make that VF39 work:

 

1.

-STI manifold

-STI intercooler

 

2.

-FMIC

 

Option 2 is your best bet. There's a local guy in my city who's running a VF39 and a FMIC with supporting fuel on a street tune that ran a 12.6. Thats pretty impressive in my book for a VF39.

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Ok. First I would like to (honestly) thank you guys for the input.

 

Now I would like to clarify something, mostly my fault for not mentioning it in the beginning, I have a very high level of experience with mechanical/electrical work.... My background is in avionics and electronics, before that I was a mechanic at a dealership. I was mainly looking to see if someone had upgraded to the 39 in some other way than the sti/fmic route.

 

LAGT- I had done some research on the topic but, I hadn't found the particular answer I was looking for. I do thank you for the insight, honestly. It will help with my upgrading of this power plant.

 

*No offense or disrespect intended to anyone, in regards to my comments*

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Other thing you should be aware of is that subys need a tune for almost any engine related modification you make. So gathering the parts and installing them is only 1/2 the battle - you also need to get tuned for them to be able to (i) fully take advantage of the upgrade and (ii) keep your motor from blowing up.

 

For furtheer clarification - The STI fitment turbos (vf39,43,48) will bolt up fine on the exaust side - however they will not mate up with a stock fitment TMIC. To complicate things even further, the STI TMIC will bolt up with the turbo but does not mate up with our throttle body. So you will need (as the others have stated) - a TMIC that mates with our throttle body and a STI fitment turbo (Process West is the only one I know that makes one), a FMIC that works with STI style turbos (there are many) or a full STI swap that requires a new intake manifold (and throttle body) and STI fitment TMIC.

 

The simplest route is PW TMIC, followed by FMIC, and finally STI swap being the most complex.

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I suppose it would be prudent list the pieces of the puzzle I currently have. Mind you none of these are installed yet, as I am going back to university for another degree.

 

I have: Cobb ap, AMR EL header, Invidia dp, Apexi drop in dry filter, Stromung exhaust, VF39 turbo, and all the bits for a 60k service.

 

Needed: intercooler setup, injectors, fuel pump and a tune.

 

Living just outside of SLC my only tuner option(I'm aware of) is ZipTie in SLC.

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Nice - got the full picture now.

 

You can also get an E-tune from one of the vendors here like Cryo or Infamous if you want to save some money on the tune.

 

For the VF39, upgraded injectors are not required - but they will give you a little more headroom and slight bump in power.

 

GL with the build.

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Thanks spec-b. this raises another question I've been meaning to ask, how reliable are e-tunes? That sounds a little negative, I suppose a better Q would be, how do they compare to dyno tunes?

 

Again thank you guys for the input.

 

Ohh, in conjunction with the power I'm also changing to HPS pads, SS lines, ATE fluid and either DBA or stop tech rotors.

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Rotor replacement is not going to buy you anything unless yours are shot or you are doing dedicated track use. Pads make a bigger difference than anything else. If your fluid is clean, no reason to change brake lines. If fluid is dark, lines are degrading and time to replace (its a closed system).

 

You need to toss that AP on the car and stage1 it NOW! Really you need to toss that DP on it and stage2 it NOW!

 

Sell everything else you have and just enjoy the car for 6 months while reading more of the forum. The fact that you are overconfident because of your electrical and mechanical background is also concerning. All of the information in this thread is only half the story. I hope you read all those links and recognize Im only trying to save you money, after all, I've rebuilt my car a few times now and hate to see others do the same because of not knowing exactly what they really want.

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IMO, E-tunes are as reliable and make as much power as traditional dyno tunes...it is just a slower process (a few days at least). Basically - the tuner send you a base map, you load it up, go out and do a few WOT runs and log the data, send the logs to the tuner, rinse and repeat a few times.
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IMO, E-tunes are as reliable and make as much power as traditional dyno tunes...it is just a slower process (a few days at least). Basically - the tuner send you a base map, you load it up, go out and do a few WOT runs and log the data, send the logs to the tuner, rinse and repeat a few times.

 

I'm curious as to how you determined this. Also how you're finding MBT on the street and keeping all conditions (load, environment, wind, incline) equal much like dyno tuning entails during a session. It's like measuring a change(output) x when y fluctuates is chasing your tail, and would take forever if you use regression analysis and factor in averages in results over time. Virtual dyno and airboy is not the correct answer. I'm sure you could get close to max usable power, but certainly not the most. With that said, once MBT and MBB are found on the dyno, a follow-up road session with careful inspection of loads being hit in higher gears on the highway(wot) to ensure all real world beat sessions don't knock your engine to death is most optimal.

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I'm curious as to how you determined this. Also how you're finding MBT on the street and keeping all conditions (load, environment, wind, incline) equal much like dyno tuning entails during a session.

 

Thats where you want a tuner with experience doing e-tunes. For example, somehow Shamar manages to tune wildly modified Subaru all over the country (world). You would generally say that an airboy is unlikely to be accurate but with his wide tuning base he is able to extrapolate a airboy sheet that would represent well on most dynos across the spectrum (as has been shown).

 

Oh yeah, here is a very recent vf52 build.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/vf52-w-ewg-build-192952.html?t=192952&highlight=vf52

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I'm curious as to how you determined this. Also how you're finding MBT on the street and keeping all conditions (load, environment, wind, incline) equal much like dyno tuning entails during a session. It's like measuring a change(output) x when y fluctuates is chasing your tail, and would take forever if you use regression analysis and factor in averages in results over time. Virtual dyno and airboy is not the correct answer. I'm sure you could get close to max usable power, but certainly not the most. With that said, once MBT and MBB are found on the dyno, a follow-up road session with careful inspection of loads being hit in higher gears on the highway(wot) to ensure all real world beat sessions don't knock your engine to death is most optimal.

 

I don't know enough about dynos or virtual dynos to substantiate my opinion..and I know absolutely nothing about regression analysis(s), but I do a lot of self tuning and this is what I think I know:

 

- Traditional dyno's will allow you to dial in more max power under very certain load, temp and incline conditions. I totally agree that you will be able to dial in more power under those very, very specific (and very unrealistic) conditions created on a dyno.

 

- Road dyno software allows the exact same thing (assuming you use the same road/incline) - the important difference is the conditions are real (for example, the air created by doing a 3rd gear run in the real world and sucked into the engine bay cannot be reproduced effectively on the dyno). If you do enough logging and tweaking of your map, I dare to say that you will end up with the same (probably more) power on the street (where most of us drive) than you would have on a traditional dyno.

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