Bolt up turbocharger upgrade - Vol-2

First and foremost, its a 5EAT. Dont install a larger turbo without addressing the weakness of the transmission first. Valve body upgrade and a oil cooler at a minimum.

 

Second, a 16g on stock fuel is a stage 1 tune. Waste of money. Buy a VF-40 CHRA ($350) and rebuild yourself if that is the case.

 

Pass on the TGV deletes and the RacerX FMIC. TGV deletes are major overkill for a 16g. Will delay boost slightly and gain maybe 1-2whp at the top. RacerX FMIC, nuff said.

 

Perrin inlet tube is not required and will require re-routing and plumbing of all vacuum lines that return to the inlet tube. It is not specific to your car.

 

Silicone PVC return hose is your call. Not necessary, but your call.

 

DW65c will not "save" your motor. It will decrease IDC by 1-2%. Thats it. If it aint broke...

 

But, you do have the probable contamination in the block and oil cooler to deal with as well as some other possible gremlins. If its the second turbo in 8k miles, I would be prepared to pay handsomely to get it all straightened out now.

 

Sorry to hear about your "new owner" troubles. Not how we want to get things "rolling" with a new Subie owner.

My point with the fuel pump was that the OEM pump is worn. While you may not be increasing IDC very much, the new pump will be able to reliably provide the fuel needed for the turbo. I guess it really comes down to how many miles are on the car.. but running the pump at higher IDC's will shorten the lifespan of the pump further. When I said "save your motor", I meant it's insurance against the OEM pump eventually failing and causing a lean condition.

When I installed my BNR18G I didn't upgrade my injectors, but I had all of the other supporting mods. Tuned to a max of 94% IDC, I just felt more comfortable with a solid fuel pump.

Lastly, how many grams/sec does a stage 1 car flow? I was flowing roughly 240 grams/sec when I was stage 2, and roughly 280-290 with the BNR.. Compared to high-power builds, that's nothing... But I wouldn't say its the same as a stage1 tune.

FWIW, I went this route for a number of reasons- primarily, I know that an 18G with injectors would likely be the end of my transmission.. Running a larger turbo at a lower PSI will eliminate the harsh torque spike down low and open up power in the upper revs.. My 18G never saw over 15psi and I feel like it was a nice reliable setup.

You do not know that the OEM pump is failing. It might be just fine and go for another 100k. Also, there is no guarantee an aftermarket pump wont fail. It happens. There is no guarantee, ever. Monitor your AFR's, its a turbo car.

Grams/sec does not equal power. Not on its own. A 16g tuned on stock fueling will make the same power as a stage1 tune with a VF40. But, it will hit peak boost slightly later.

A 5MT has no issues with an 18g. A 5MT can hold far more power than what an 18g can provide. Its about treating the trans right and allowing the synchros to do their job. Dont let the cases swell and the gear set will stay together a whole lot better.

Lol, whut? Someone please dig up dyno sheets on this...

Isn't he just saying that without a downpipe a 16g isn't that much better than a VF40/46? Isn't that consistent with a VF52? The VF46 and the VF52 make about the same HP stock.

Yes. I am referring to using a 16g as a stock replacement. Stock car with a 16g and a tune is the same as a stock car with a OEM turbo and stage1 tune.

Was the original question not this scenario? Oh, I see an edit made. With the catless DP the 16g will make more than a VF40.

Firstly id like to thank you all for the reply's and information!!

But id like to say that im not keen on swapping out the turbo anytime in the near future again... so i really want to do this once, and only once if i can avoid having to do so again.. also i am under a time constraint, i need to get this car on the road ASAP because the point of my having bought this car was to use it as my new DD wile i take my current car off the road for some much needed TLC and attention... and i need to do it before it get too cold here...

after having looked at my options (again) this is how i see it... a direct OEM replacement is not a good idea no matter what the conditions im better off getting anything but a VF40..

yes i could get an OEM/reman CHRA for about 350... but i am not comfortable doing work on a turbo just yet, and honestly i see the VF40 as a major part of the problem...yes i know that the oiling system sux ass and needs addressed and is a major culpret as well but from all the treads ive read.. not one was about how awesome the vf40 was, and what kinds of -even Meh- power being made on the stock turbo.. (unlike Evo 8/9 etc (those have been know [with proof] to handle over 350Whp even up to 410Whp on e85 and a light port)..

BNR has a rebuilt VF40 for 650.. but again to me.. thats burning a chunk of change with little to no return and to get the warrenty i still have to spend the 250 for the filter kit..

The BNR-Evo16G looks like to be what im going to go with, all reviews and treads ive read up on, seams to show me that its exactly what im looking for... a bit later spool should be remedied with the N-vidia catless DP already on the car (and more future exhaust work), and does not fall flat on its face like the OEM.... i like the fact it gives some head room to grow as well, and in the future should deliver what im looking to get out of it... power under the curve.. not all about peek... Not saying that i wont NEED to get a tune, or that fuel supply will not be an issue if i wan to actually DO anything with this turbo.. but for now (and again i need help/opinions/confirmations about this part as ive read some conflicting info) i "should be ok" on "stock" fuel system/tune IE: it will RUN and i can drive it with out worry of it failing/blowing up on me... to ensure this ill be getting a "good" boost gauge (most likely AEM.. ive used some of there gauges before and like how they look/work) and a manual boost controller... set that thing down to something stupid low like 5psi and get her back on the road.. once i get a wide-band and a chance to do some data-logging, ill slowly turn it up to comfortable levels as long as im not seeing any knock, and overly lean results.. (sounds to me like a sound plan.. what do you all think???)

In an effort to remove any and all possible debris from the oiling system ill be dropping the oil pan and cleaning out all that i can get to.. as well as replacing the 2x OCV's, the PCV,and the OEM cooler, as well... oh and of course the obligatory IP&T filtered line kit... Any and all lines/parts that i can remove to clean out.. will be done.. ill be doing the same from the charged air track too... but i am still concerned about being able to remove all of the debris from the TMIC... hence my thoughts on doing the Racer-x FMIC.... that and it was on my list of to-do future mods... i dont understand what was ment by the "nuff-said" comment in regards to it???

the only reason i was considering doing the TGV deletes was because it is one of the codes i have kicked on right now (most likely from the mechanic bumping the sensor, or having removed the sensor and not re-installed it correctly during the instillation of the replacement turbo)... that and as stated before, will be pulling all of the intake track apart to remove the (confirmed) oil and debris..... hell i would almost put money on the mechanic not having removed the banjo filter either, at this point...

I will not "turn up the power" until i address the week points with the next round of mods... those future mods will include the Hexmods F1 VB, replacement solid bushings for the center diff, and full auxiliary cooling system with B&M cooler, a thermostat to prevent over cooling and a temp gauge to monitor activity (and possibly a controlled fan to prevent heat soaking/overheating while in high temp traffic conditions.. (and towing)

Other mods will include some exhaust work and proper fuel delivery upgrades (possibly up the anti for E85 capability)...

i have a plan...

so after all of that.. what do you all think... is the BNR Ev16G right for me?

Any other suggestions on parts that i need to address to get this thing back on the road properly and reliably? Does it look like i have all my T's crossed off and my I's dotted??

once again thank you in advance for any help/constructive suggestions and information ....

Firstly id like to thank you all for the reply's and information!!

 

But id like to say that im not keen on swapping out the turbo anytime in the near future again... so i really want to do this once, and only once if i can avoid having to do so again.. also i am under a time constraint, i need to get this car on the road ASAP because the point of my having bought this car was to use it as my new DD wile i take my current car off the road for some much needed TLC and attention... and i need to do it before it get too cold here...

Trust me.. I feel your pain.

after having looked at my options (again) this is how i see it... a direct OEM replacement is not a good idea no matter what the conditions im better off getting anything but a VF40..

 

yes i could get an OEM/reman CHRA for about 350... but i am not comfortable doing work on a turbo just yet, and honestly i see the VF40 as a major part of the problem...yes i know that the oiling system sux ass and needs addressed and is a major culpret as well but from all the treads ive read.. not one was about how awesome the vf40 was, and what kinds of -even Meh- power being made on the stock turbo.. (unlike Evo 8/9 etc (those have been know [with proof] to handle over 350Whp even up to 410Whp on e85 and a light port)..

 

BNR has a rebuilt VF40 for 650.. but again to me.. thats burning a chunk of change with little to no return and to get the warrenty i still have to spend the 250 for the filter kit..

I agree- I think the Evo16G is a good option for you (I don't think the rebuilt VF40 is an option anymore). If you don't want to go through this again soon, make sure you nail down the oil system. Check your banjos etc.

The BNR-Evo16G looks like to be what im going to go with, all reviews and treads ive read up on, seams to show me that its exactly what im looking for... a bit later spool should be remedied with the N-vidia catless DP already on the car (and more future exhaust work), and does not fall flat on its face like the OEM.... i like the fact it gives some head room to grow as well, and in the future should deliver what im looking to get out of it... power under the curve.. not all about peek... Not saying that i wont NEED to get a tune, or that fuel supply will not be an issue if i wan to actually DO anything with this turbo.. but for now (and again i need help/opinions/confirmations about this part as ive read some conflicting info) i "should be ok" on "stock" fuel system/tune IE: it will RUN and i can drive it with out worry of it failing/blowing up on me... to ensure this ill be getting a "good" boost gauge (most likely AEM.. ive used some of there gauges before and like how they look/work) and a manual boost controller... set that thing down to something stupid low like 5psi and get her back on the road.. once i get a wide-band and a chance to do some data-logging, ill slowly turn it up to comfortable levels as long as im not seeing any knock, and overly lean results.. (sounds to me like a sound plan.. what do you all think???)

You will need a tune with the new turbo, as the fueling tables will be different, along with wastegate, target boost, and so on. It's important to ensure the health of the motor.

In an effort to remove any and all possible debris from the oiling system ill be dropping the oil pan and cleaning out all that i can get to.. as well as replacing the 2x OCV's, the PCV,and the OEM cooler, as well... oh and of course the obligatory IP&T filtered line kit... Any and all lines/parts that i can remove to clean out.. will be done.. ill be doing the same from the charged air track too... but i am still concerned about being able to remove all of the debris from the TMIC... hence my thoughts on doing the Racer-x FMIC.... that and it was on my list of to-do future mods... i dont understand what was ment by the "nuff-said" comment in regards to it???

Sounds like you're on the right track with the oil system. As far as the TMIC goes, I would replace it too, if it were me. But I think the "nuff-said" comment was intended to politely dismiss the fact that a FMIC is completely overkill on a 16G, even with all of the supporting mods like injectors etc. You're just going to create lag- try to find a nice TMIC, or check out BarManBean's bulletproof TMIC kit, buy an OEM TMIC, and be just fine.

the only reason i was considering doing the TGV deletes was because it is one of the codes i have kicked on right now (most likely from the mechanic bumping the sensor, or having removed the sensor and not re-installed it correctly during the instillation of the replacement turbo)... that and as stated before, will be pulling all of the intake track apart to remove the (confirmed) oil and debris..... hell i would almost put money on the mechanic not having removed the banjo filter either, at this point...

 

I will not "turn up the power" until i address the week points with the next round of mods... those future mods will include the Hexmods F1 VB, replacement solid bushings for the center diff, and full auxiliary cooling system with B&M cooler, a thermostat to prevent over cooling and a temp gauge to monitor activity (and possibly a controlled fan to prevent heat soaking/overheating while in high temp traffic conditions.. (and towing)

 

Other mods will include some exhaust work and proper fuel delivery upgrades (possibly up the anti for E85 capability)...

 

i have a plan...

 

so after all of that.. what do you all think... is the BNR Ev16G right for me?

Any other suggestions on parts that i need to address to get this thing back on the road properly and reliably? Does it look like i have all my T's crossed off and my I's dotted??

 

once again thank you in advance for any help/constructive suggestions and information ....

My only other suggestion would be to check your uppipe for cracks at the base.

Just one comment: I had a stage 2 (gutted OEM pipes) VF-40, and I REALLY liked the instant get-up-and-go of the TDC stage 2 tune with those mods. Yes, it really fell off after 5k rpm, but man, it was really, really fast to respond in around-town driving.

I switched to a bnr16g (with injectors + pump) because of worries about the turbo dying and ending up where you are when I was at 63k miles. 50k miles later, bnr16g still going along happily (now with IP&T oil line kit v1). About to add Grimmspeed TMIC and CNT catted DP.

A rebuilt VF40 is definitely still an option, as long as you get it from JmP6889928, who rebuilds them with better journal bearings, and, makes a custom unit, such as the one I'm running, with an 11-blade billet wheel, inconel shaft, and upgraded journal bearings. It will push up to 22psi if I want, though I'm currently sitting at about 15. I have impeccable low-end power and a very decent torque curve on stock fueling and an "OTS" Stage 2 map.

Go ahead and send him a PM and ask what he's got available, it's worth getting the conversation started - He's full of TONS of helpful information.

I'm a little confused. The 16G makes similar power at similar boost levels to a VF52, right? If so, how can the 16G make identical power to the VF40/VF46 at equal boost levels if the VF52 makes 22 chp more than the VF46 at ~equal boost levels?

Efficiency range of the compressor.

So a stage 1 05-09 LGT (vf40/46) will make the same power as a stage 1 09-14 WRX (vf52)? I find that hard to believe. - I did not say that.

 

Either way, how many people are actually installing a 16g/vf52 as a replacement and remaining completely stock.I would imagine that's not a large number. - More than you might think, there are more non-forum members than there are forum members.

Of course there are more non-members than members... I'm sure you're just misinterpreting BMB. What I'm sure he meant was that the majority of people enthusiastic enough to join the forum and upgrade the turbo would probably make other modifications as well..

Mike's got a big point, there -- Any idea how many actual lurkers there are for this place? There are LOTS of folks (of all ages, believe it or not) who don't even register, let alone post or participate, who own LGTs and have mods or have even done entire motor swaps without posting about it. Our information is helpful to more than just whoever happens to be here talking about it -

I'm really having a hard time understanding what your point is with that Tris..

Blaqk Havok, welcome, and kudos for doing research! Some just come and ask, "Wat do?", so nice work there.

If you're keeping the stock intercooler, you might want to look at BMB's BP kit. My vacuum tee can also avoid a common boost/vacuum leak. It's a good idea to secure the rest of the lines with zip-ties too.

Good luck!

Of course there are more non-members than members... I'm sure you're just misinterpreting BMB. What I'm sure he meant was that the majority of people enthusiastic enough to join the forum and upgrade the turbo would probably make other modifications as well..

You would be amazed at how many calls I take where the voice on the other end read something on the forum (not a member) and has many, many questions about using a 16g as a stock replacement.

Heyyyyy youuuu guyssss...

Just stopping by to say that after 14k miles, I still absolutely LOVE my BNRevo16g!

And, I still make the WRX/STI guys angry when I totally stomp on them in my 5EAT family wagon.

Sleeper FTW.

So yeah.

Not sure what you mean or how that answers my question. Efficiency range of which compressor, compared to which other compressor, and how does it affect power?

There is far more to it than "turbo A makes this power at this boost and turbo B makes this power at this boost". Your basic analogy and comparative numbers are off to begin with. I dont have time to explain it all. In my experience working with 2 different tuners over the past 5 years and testing set ups on my dyno for the last 1.5 years using a 16g as a stock replacement turbo yields nothing over a stock turbo. There is no "value" to the extra expense. My advise to those looking for a stock replacement turbo that wont break the bank is a rebuilt OEM turbo.

I get mine from Pure Turbos. They sell CHRA's and full rebuilds. Full rebuilds carry a 1 year warranty.