turbodog Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Doing a bit of research on taller jacks, jack stands and cribbing blocks for a non-legacy project coming up and came across this: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1625985 Think fully about your setup before going under the car....non-locking jack stands, creepers, backup supports properly applied, ramps, etc. EDIT: Further discussion of ratcheting jack stands, I had not read the full thread earlier... http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21762324&postcount=62 From Tom D. again bimmerforums E21 1975-83 i finally got a chance to look at my ratchet stands and my calculations although are correct, the operation of the ratchet is not like i imagined it. the corner weight is still 750 lb. the lever is 5.5" on one side of the fulcrum and 1.5" on the other. that makes the mechanical advantage 8.25 the pawl only needs to lift the weight 1/16" and move sideways 1/8" to disengage. so without allowing for friction it would only take 90 lb. of force to lift and 1/2" of travel on the handle to move it off it's perch. not good! Tom DNews to me....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted May 22, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2012 Sad, but happens all too often. A single item/tool/stand/whatever is not enough to trust when it is holding something over your head/body that could easily crush you to death in just a second. Plan for failure at one or more points and you'll be much safer. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 So often I put a car on jack stands and still do not trust it. I always try to "back up" my lifting method, even if it is just sliding the wheels under the car after I take them off. I had a car fall once, not on me but just as I was about to get underneath. This is so sad, but in retrospect he passed doing what he loved to do. My prayers to the family and friends and thank you to the OP for reminding us of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal2You Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I didn't realize there are stands out there that will release with a light touch while under load. The stands I have require imparting an upward force on the arm, so releasing them while the car is on them would be very difficult. This is really sad. The family may want to consider legal action against a manufacturer that made a poorly designed product. They have some grieving to do first I'm sure :-( I will put my wheels under the rotors or control arms from now on though. I hadn't thought of doing that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yes, wheels halfway under the rockers, or somewhere under the car JUST IN CASE! I'm going to ditch my Harbor Freight jack stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dujo Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 When I put my car on jackstands in the driveway, both the jack and the jackstands have a tendency to sink a bit into the asphalt. I'm always a little concerned that the sinking will upset the support and shift the car. I've considered putting wood (single-layer, flat 1x10) under the jackstand. Any idea whether this is a good idea or a horrendous one? I can't decide if the wood or the asphalt is softer. Maybe the best idea is that i should go out and get a couple steel plates. Opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted May 22, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2012 Get some steel plates welded to the bottom of the jack stands?...cant go wrong there and it would spread the weight out evenly. I bet a shop would quickly weld everything up for you for well under $50. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskiTrombone Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 wow, that's crazy. Feel so sorry for his family. Can somebody post a picture of the jack stands in question here? I just use the regular old jack stands, now not sure how safe they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskiTrombone Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I remember reading about this... I always throw the wheel I took off underneath the car in addition to the stands... I think if you read what his father said, he did just that and it still didn't save him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted May 22, 2012 I Donated Share Posted May 22, 2012 When I put my car on jackstands in the driveway, both the jack and the jackstands have a tendency to sink a bit into the asphalt. I'm always a little concerned that the sinking will upset the support and shift the car. I've considered putting wood (single-layer, flat 1x10) under the jackstand. Any idea whether this is a good idea or a horrendous one? I can't decide if the wood or the asphalt is softer. Maybe the best idea is that i should go out and get a couple steel plates. Opinions? No wood. Wood is soft. Thick sheetmetal would be the best bet, as previously stated. Maybe spray it with rubberized undercoating for additional traction? I've thought about getting a creeper so that my fiancee can work with me on my car (she has trouble with her back, but would like to learn how to do this stuff). This has changed my mind. I'll just tell her to skip going under the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Last spring and summer my wagon sat on Harbor Fright 6 ton jack stands for about 4 months. I was even under it when the tornado hit Springfield MA 13 miles away. The car never moved. It rained pretty hard pretty quickly. I kept dry under the car. I was ready to roll under the 7000 lb 40ft enclosed trailer that was 3ft from the if needed or run into the house if it was needed. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodog Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 ^ I'm liking the 6-ton torin's with the lock pins from amazon for $46 shipped. [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Torin-T46002A-Double-Locking-Jack/dp/B00026Z3DQ]Amazon.com: Torin T46002A 6 Ton Double Locking Jack Stands (Sold in Pairs): Automotive[/ame] Or some home made cribbing blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasAyinde Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 It seems strange that a company like Craftsman would have such a glaring defect that would cause jackstands to fail so easily while carrying so much weight on them. I feel like this would have been a class action lawsuit if it was this easy for Craftsman jackstands to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodog Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Further discussion of ratcheting jack stands, I had not read the full thread earlier... http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21762324&postcount=62 From Tom D. again bimmerforums E21 1975-83 i finally got a chance to look at my ratchet stands and my calculations although are correct, the operation of the ratchet is not like i imagined it. the corner weight is still 750 lb. the lever is 5.5" on one side of the fulcrum and 1.5" on the other. that makes the mechanical advantage 8.25 the pawl only needs to lift the weight 1/16" and move sideways 1/8" to disengage. so without allowing for friction it would only take 90 lb. of force to lift and 1/2" of travel on the handle to move it off it's perch. not good! Tom DNews to me....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Back when I had Impreza-based Subarus, I had a pair of mobile home jackstands. They had round tops and fit perfectly in the trailing arm bracket mounts. They were a screw-to-adjust type, and were cast iron. I don't have any pics, but each one must have weighed 40lbs with a MASSIVE footprint. For the front, I had a set of pin-type adjustable stands. I never once worried about the car falling, and I had something like 21" to the rocker panel. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Just a reminder to everyone.....NEVER USE CONCRETE BLOCKS!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated Too laff79 Posted May 23, 2012 I Donated Too Share Posted May 23, 2012 I use only the OEM jack when I do undercarriage work. Never failed me yet. too soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjwelna Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I think if you read what his father said, he did just that and it still didn't save him. Yeah, unfortunately likely because he was on a creeper, which raised his body up another 3-4". I avoid using creepers whenever I can for just that reason, less room in case SHTF. Now I'm looking at replacing my regular old craftsman specials. One of these days I will get a lift. This makes me want to go get some old railroad rail as a backup. -Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Edit: Other post deleted. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 This really seems inappropriate. The man's son is dead, I strongly urge you to delete your comment. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie_dude05 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 That is a tragedy. I have a set of locking jack stands but I like the way these look for a back up. http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd205/TKDJimi/IMG_0533.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 My ratcheting jack stands are getting thrown out when I get home. I'd be lieing if I said I didn't tear up reading Christian's dad's story, this is truly tragic. I can't begin to imagine what he has been going through over the past year. My dad was first on the scene (got there before the ambulance) when I was hit by a car riding my moto home from work and nearly died, it was the first time I truly saw fear in his eyes (he is an old school guy from NY that grew up in a conservative jewish home that didn't talk feelings too much. He is a doctor as well, and had to keep explaining to other doctors/nurses at the hospital that the reason he was following the patient's gurney around was because his son was on it. I broke 4 vertebrae and bruised my spleen and kidney, im very lucky to be alive, let alone walking on 2 feet). Losing a child has to be one of the worst tragedies a person can endure. My heartfelt condolences go out to Christian's family. His dad mentioned on the BMW forums how he appreciated the outpouring of support from the 'fraternity' of tuners/enthusiasts out there. I think the fact that this made its way to these forums, and probably many others, just goes to show how much we can all be there for each other, even if we have nothing in common beyond loving cars. It's stories like this and the resulting outpouring of support from total strangers that make me grateful for this 'brotherhood' we all share. RIP Christian, it sounds like you are one amazing guy who has a lot of people who love you dearly from everything I've read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWSPECB Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 This happened to a kid over here (Portland, OR) last December. ALOHA, Ore. - A man who didn’t show up to work Monday and was reported missing was found crushed to death under his car. Patrick Gow, 20, was found dead in his garage by a friend who had been looking for him. According to the Washington County Sheriff’s Office, Gow had jacked up his car and was working underneath it when the jack collapsed. Gow’s mother reported her son missing at about 5 p.m. after he didn’t show up for work. She told police she hadn’t seen her son since Sunday night. After investigating the incident, sheriff’s deputies concluded it was an accident. http://beaverton.katu.com/news/news/449469-car-jack-collapses-aloha-man-crushed-death It is truly sad to hear of accidents like this taking anybody's life. It is much harder when it is a young person and even harder when it is somebody you know. I almost lost my younger brother in a car accident (he was hit and dragged (drug?) underneath a car for about 200ft.) so I can almost grasp the idea of losing a child after seeing what my parents and I went through, and still go through, after that experience. RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew888 Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 My ratcheting jack stands are getting thrown out when I get home. This seems a bit extreme. If you use a decent "ratcheting" stand with a safety pin you are absolutely fine. I follow this up with not pulling out the floor jack. Losing a child has to be one of the worst tragedies a person can endure. My heartfelt condolences go out to Christian's family. His dad mentioned on the BMW forums how he appreciated the outpouring of support from the 'fraternity' of tuners/enthusiasts out there. I think the fact that this made its way to these forums, and probably many others, just goes to show how much we can all be there for each other, even if we have nothing in common beyond loving cars. It's stories like this and the resulting outpouring of support from total strangers that make me grateful for this 'brotherhood' we all share. RIP Christian, it sounds like you are one amazing guy who has a lot of people who love you dearly from everything I've read. My sentiments exactly...very tragic. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1586"VbGallery/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew888 Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 This may seem like a good idea but to those that haven't been wrenching long enough this can also be very dangerous. Have you tried to raise a car very high. If not done a little at a time carefully it is actually just as dangerous. Bottom line is go slowly, be on flat solid ground, pay attention, double/triple check everything, and know your tools. Heck a cordless drill is dangerous in the wrong hands. There is no substitute for common sense. That is a tragedy. I have a set of locking jack stands but I like the way these look for a back up. http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd205/TKDJimi/IMG_0533.jpg [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1586"VbGallery/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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