Dunlop Wintersport 3D's or Michelin X-Ice Xi2's?

Having a hard time deciding between the two for the LGT. I ran the previous version of the Dunlops (M3's) on my forester and N/A outback wagon and they seemed very capable, I never once got stuck or had significant loss of traction with them, even when trying. When testing the traction limits of the M3's in parking lots I always found them to be predictable, gradually losing grip, and intuitive to control when pushing them close to their limits of traction. I never had any major issues driving on these tires, but living in southeastern MN we tend to get a fair amount of "wintery mix" on top of a good bit of snow. Freezing rain, sleet, heavy snow is all possible where I live. The plows do a good job of clearing the roads for the most part, but there can be a lot of packed snow that builds up in areas.....

Long story short, which would you pick and why? I know that the difference is probably minimal between the two and right now I'm leaning towards the x-ice's. These will be run as a dedicated winter tire, with some time spent in the transitional months with temps in the 40's to low 50's at most. I'm planning on getting a set of dedicated summer only rubber for the rest of the time. Thanks.

Size I'm planning on is 205/50-17 on stock rims to better cut through and get traction.

-Steve

Two different animals.

X-Ice is a dedicated winter tire that gives up some dry performance. Aka non performance all-season

Wintersport 3D-is a performance winter tire, more akin to a high performance tire in non-winter conditions. The catch is you give up some snow and ice traction.

I will only state the Nokian WR G2's I owned(akin to Wintersport 3D) I never longed for more tire in any conditions. When owning true winter tires(Blizzacks, Michelin Artic Aplins, Nokian Hakka) I always could not wait to get rid of them in the spring and get performance tires back on.

Like __raj said, the two tires you've picked to compare are fundamentally different animals.

On the sliding scale of winter tire capabilities, the 3D is a "Performance Winter," and the Xi2 is a "Studless Ice & Snow."

The former maximizes clear-road (wet or dry) capabilities and highway manners in-trade for a compromise when it comes to how well it can get a footing in wintry precipitation.

The latter shoots for increased traction capabilities on ice as well as both packed or powder snow while compromising clear-roads performance and highway stability.

As you can see, the difference between the two is far from "minimal" - rather, it's a fundamental rift, and should be the first deciding criteria of your shopping process.

This 2009 Car and Driver article very well illustrates the differences between "Performance Winters" and "Studless Ice & Snows" (as well as "summer" tires and HPAS). I would highly recommend that you print a hardcopy of the article so that you can lay the data-sheets side-by-side, to more easily compare the quantitative data.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/2009_winter_tire_test-comparison_tests

On icier roadways and on hardpack, there's no contest - the Xi2 will easily outperform the 3D. However, at the same time, you said that you've never had any problems with the M3, which are a predecessor of the 3D...and that would lead me to believe that you'll also be more than just fine with the 3D: with that in-mind, unless you specifically want to trade-off highway stability as well as clear-roadway performance for increased wintry capabilities, there would be no need to step up to the Xi2.

As for tire sizing, again, remember your end-goals.

If you're looking for increased capabilities at "cutting through," yes, narrower is better - but you'll again trade off this decreased footprint in terms of clear-roads performance.

Right now, sjwelna, your end-goals seem to be somewhat conflicting. Get a better handle on what you really want with your setup, and this decision will essentially work itself out for you, automatically.

Yeah, I made a blooper saying that the tires are minimally different. The end result of what I'm looking for is essentially a winter weather tire that will be able to carry me through the colder part of the transitional periods in spring/fall. When it really comes down to it, if the weather really turns sour I tend to just jump in the 4x4 pickup which is VERY competent in the deep stuff, but mostly so no one slides into the LGT!

I had been considering going from a winter performance tire to the dedicated studless ice and snow tire on the LGT to try and gain an even better footing in the winter time, but I just don't know that I plan on driving the car in that bad of conditions (if I have a choice obviously). When the ice and snow really pile up I just jump in the truck, lock it in 4wd, and let the LGT stay safe and warm in the garage.

Because I have the truck and seeing how I was pleased with the M3's in the past, I think the 3D will be more than enough tire for my needs in the winter time. I'm not sure the tradeoffs will really net me any benefit to going to a studless ice and snow tire at this point.

Thanks for straightening me out.

I just realized that the above post was my first on the board, I've been lurking around reading a lot in the last year. I posted a lot on subaruforester.org and dsmtuners.com / dsmlink.com in the past, so this is the next board I've moved to.

-Steve

You would've straightened yourself out, given a few more minutes, no doubt.

Given that you do have an alternative vehicle which you will use for the absolute worst days, I think that you'll probably find the 3Ds more to your liking, as well as for your aims.

While modern "Studless Ice & Snows" offer more than sufficiently capable performance in clear-dry/wet conditions, that's definitely not their strong-suit, and a strong case can be made that under such conditions (even forgetting the warming part), their safety-margins are significantly smaller than with "Performance Winters."

If you were happy with the M3s, you'll be more than happy with the 3Ds.

Hey sjwelna: don't worry about TSi straightening you out when it comes to winter tires. Hell, I had 100 posts in when he had to straighten me out!! (chuckles...)

Welcome aboard. My first winter with a Legacy as well, and I'm leaning into 3D's as well...!

Yeah I have been rocking a set of newer RE92's that were put on the car before I bought it used with about 21k miles on it. All I have to say coming from having cars with dedicated summer and winter rubber is that those tires are HORRIBLE, especially their performance in the snow last winter. It truely was pathetic. Then again I really dislike "no-season" tires anyways so that is part of the problem..... Thanks again for the help!

-Steve

^ Yeah, compared against dedicated summers/winters, "All-Seasons" truly leave much to be desired.

Except for perhaps those rare hot-cold swings during the transitional seasons.....

Hey sjwelna: don't worry about TSi straightening you out when it comes to winter tires. Hell, I had 100 posts in when he had to straighten me out!! (chuckles...)!

^

Don't see it like that - we're all here to help each other, that's the goal.

Without others to bounce ideas off of and to discuss/debate, what good is a community like this, right?

Now I'm second guessing my size choice....trying to make my mind up between 205/50-17 and a 225/45-17. Anyone opinionated on the matter?

-Steve

^ My opinion is that 20mm produces enough real-world difference in performance/handling that even an untrained set of hands and rather thick and ill-calibrated butt-dyno like mine can tell/feel the difference.

The "narrower" will allow you to "cut-through" better.

The "wider" will give you better clear-roads performance.

So this can be argued two ways, then:

That since you're going with a "Performance Winter," you've already got enough stacked in favor of the clear-roads performance part of the equation, so you should instead go with the "narrower" tires to help you cut-through the rough wintry stuff better.

That's certainly reasonable, right?

But on the other hand, you can also argue that since your main goal is obviously clear-roads performance - for which you clearly sacrificed wintry-precipitation capabilities, by simply choosing the "Performance Winter" sub-genre over a "Studless Ice & Snow" - you should seek to maximize your fun during those times: so why not get a "wider" tire?

To me, both reasoning seem valid - it just depends on your frame-of-reference or desires.

So this can be argued two ways, then:

 

That since you're going with a "Performance Winter," you've already got enough stacked in favor of the clear-roads performance part of the equation, so you should instead go with the "narrower" tires to help you cut-through the rough wintry stuff better.

 

That's certainly reasonable, right?

 

But on the other hand, you can also argue that since your main goal is obviously clear-roads performance - for which you clearly sacrificed wintry-precipitation capabilities, by simply choosing the "Performance Winter" sub-genre over a "Studless Ice & Snow" - you should seek to maximize your fun during those times: so why not get a "wider" tire?

 

To me, both reasoning seem valid - it just depends on your frame-of-reference or desires.

This is precisely the two sides of the coin I've been contemplating for the last couple hours. Still undecided, it will come to me though.

-Steve

I leaned towards the wider stance tire size since I am in the Seattle area but in snow every weekend. Thus I have the traction for the wet/rainy driving near sea level scenarios but still have dedicated snows for skiing every weekend. This will be my 2.5 season on a set of Xi2's. So far the thread is holding up nicely for the highway mileage we've thrown at the tires.

Cheers,

Mike

Pretty sure im just going to get the 225's. If the snow is really THAT deep like I said I just hop in the truck and forget about it. The extra almost inch of rubber width will be nice for the transitional periods. We really only have snow on the ground here from about the end of november until march.

-Steve

Just for the sake of closure I bought a set of the 3D's in 225/45-17 and am going to have them mounted up tonight.

-Steve