pros and cons of E85

i have heard that running e85 actually makes the car run better. Is this true?? is it bad for the car or anything??

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/e85-pros-and-cons-76233.html

 

pros:

you get more power

it's cheaper than race gas

 

cons:

you need additional parts to run e85 (fuel pump, injectors, tune)

you get less mileage

it's more expensive as a daily driver than 91 or 93 octane.

Some people say that more power will wear down the engine sooner

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/e85-pros-and-cons-76233.html

 

pros:

you get more power

it's cheaper than race gas

 

cons:

you need additional parts to run e85 (fuel pump, injectors, tune)

you get less mileage

it's more expensive as a daily driver than 91 or 93 octane.

Some people say that more power will wear down the engine sooner

 

I would say that is all true. To some extent E85 is slightly less lubricating than regular gasoline (not that regular gasoline is very lubricating). E85 is also worse than the environment than gasoline despite the marketing. The amount of petrol to produce a set quantity of ethanol is not worth it.

 

Nice for power though

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/e85-pros-and-cons-76233.html

 

pros:

you get more power

it's cheaper than race gas

 

cons:

you need additional parts to run e85 (fuel pump, injectors, tune)

you get less mileage

it's more expensive as a daily driver than 91 or 93 octane.

Some people say that more power will wear down the engine sooner

 

E85 locally is $2.30 a gallon, and has always been right around there. 93 octane is $3.00 a gallon currently. I am calculating my mileage on E85 right now so I have no hard numbers.... but the cheaper cost of the gas certainly helps offset the worse mileage. If you take it easy around town, you can actually get a decent amount of miles on a tank.

 

So.... for me, its cheap power.

 

My biggest con is planning out my trips to the 2 specific gas stations in my area, and traveling to unknown territory. The laptop is in the car full time in case I need to switch maps.

We have yet to see knock (detonation) on E85. This has been confirmed with various other tuners.

 

I run it year round. No problems.

 

If your engine needs any lubrication from it's fuel, it's gonna seize up on you pretty soon.

We have yet to see knock (detonation) on E85. This has been confirmed with various other tuners.

 

I run it year round. No problems.

 

If your engine needs any lubrication from it's fuel, it's gonna seize up on you pretty soon.

 

ditto

 

I could not get knock if I tried... never have had it show up in logs or in learning view.

There's a few gas station with E85 fuel in my area. Maybe I'll fill up half a tank and see how it performs.

There's a few gas station with E85 fuel in my area. Maybe I'll fill up half a tank and see how it performs.

 

Ummm.... you know you need a tune for this right?

 

You could probably afford to put a few gallons into a full tank of 93.... but drive around in CL for a while to get your Learned trims to stabilize (AFR D specifically). If you don't know what those things mean, don't run E85.

 

I have heard of people topping off the last couple of gallons with E85 on a 93 octane tune, but personally I would not mess around with that at all.

If it ever stops getting subsidized by the government then the price will skyrocket. Not a big deal if you get a map for gasoline as well.

If it ever stops getting subsidized by the government then the price will skyrocket. Not a big deal if you get a map for gasoline as well.

 

Yea that would suck. I am enjoying the crap out of $2.30 a gallon though.

once they commercialize making E85 from grass clippings, it will be dirt cheap

 

 

South America has been and continues to use E100 quite effectively

Another con:

 

Added expense of replacing O2 sensors more often than on 91.

Another con:

 

Added expense of replacing O2 sensors more often than on 91.

 

What determines the life of the sensor? For instance, is going WOT worse than just daily driving? Is it a temperature thing, or a fuel mixture / catalyst reaction type of thing?

Any way around this?

Do the FlexFuel vehicles have more robust sensors? (that we could possibly hack with either resistors or sensor scaling in RR)

From what I've read, most e85 users get approx. 15mpg. Compare that to 23mpg with 91, and 91 is cheaper mpg that e85

 

23mpg @ $3.20/gallon of CA91 = 7.2 miles per $1

23mpg @ $9/gal of 100oct = 2.5 miles per $1

15mpg @ $2.50/gallon of e85=6 miles per $1

From what I've read, most e85 users get approx. 15mpg. Compare that to 23mpg with 91, and 91 is cheaper mpg that e85

 

23mpg @ $3.20/gallon of CA91 = 7.2 miles per $1

23mpg @ $9/gal of 100oct = 2.5 miles per $1

15mpg @ $2.50/gallon of e85=6 miles per $1

 

Thanks for the math!

 

It would seem that E85 is only slightly more expensive than regular fuel, but with a huge gain in power. So it's only a matter of "is it worth it".

In the long run, is it going to be cheaper than upgrading the turbo to get you the same HP#'s... hrmmm

What determines the life of the sensor? For instance, is going WOT worse than just daily driving? Is it a temperature thing, or a fuel mixture / catalyst reaction type of thing?

Any way around this?

Do the FlexFuel vehicles have more robust sensors? (that we could possibly hack with either resistors or sensor scaling in RR)

 

I have no idea whatsoever. Just repeating the gripes of the E85 faithful.

 

Can't wait to run it on my car!

For those thinking the energy return on E85, as it is currently produced, is worse than gasoline, you are wrong. Please consider where a majority of our oil comes from and what it takes to get it here. Drilling for it, shipping it across the ocean, refining it etc. The study that showed E85 as a negative energy return took many leaps to come to that conclusion. They factored in some pretty ridiculous expenditures. Nonetheless, corn ethanol is the tip of the iceberg. There will be many more efficient ways to manufacture ethanol in the future. Also, when the delta between premium and E85 hits about 18%, it usually makes more fiscal sense (think miles per dollar) to use E85 over premium from my findings. Not to mention it's worth quicker spool and significantly more power across the power band.

Yes it's the cheaper power/performance alternative, but it's not the cheaper DD/Commuting alternative.

 

When it's both, it'll be a no brainer decision.

 

For now though, I'm not going to buy extra parts & tune that's only useful to me 4-6 times a year for track days, especially when you can't even buy it at the track yet (at least here in NorCal).

I plan on burning corn in the next 30 days. Waited 2 years for it to become available here!

Yes it's the cheaper power/performance alternative, but it's not the cheaper DD/Commuting alternative.

 

When it's both, it'll be a no brainer decision.

 

For now though, I'm not going to buy extra parts & tune that's only useful to me 4-6 times a year for track days, especially when you can't even buy it at the track yet (at least here in NorCal).

 

 

Depends on where you live. I ran it all summer last year and saved myself 2 cents per mile over running 92 octane.

 

I averaged about 16mpg on E85 and 19.8mpg on 92 octane.

 

Right now, locally E85 is $2.50 per gallon and premium is $3.26 per gallon. For me, that means it cost 15.6 cents per mile to use E85, while gasoline cost 16.5 cents per mile.

I have been burning corn all winter. About 16,000 lbs or 286 bushels. It makes great heat in the corn stove. Bulk corn used to cost me $4-5 per 100lbs and now it is around $7 per 100lbs. Even at the $7 mark it is way cheaper than propane.

The only obsticale I have to overcome when it comes to burning corn in the Subaru is the wife yelling at me that I will blow up the 5MT. I only get one rebuild and then she says I have to get a Prius:spin:

I get 17+ mpg on E85 and about 21mpg on gas. E85 is $2.04 91oct is $2.75 - $2.95

 

I have yet to see an O2 sensor die prematurely from E85. The only thing about E85 that could cause an O2 sensor to die early would be that ethanol tends to produce more H2O from combustion and IF that water condenses on the O2 sensor... water isn't good for O2 sensors. But you would have to be doing short drives that don't let the engine/exhaust come up to temp for it to be detrimental. Same side affects would be associated with gas as well.

For now though, I'm not going to buy extra parts & tune that's only useful to me 4-6 times a year for track days, especially when you can't even buy it at the track yet (at least here in NorCal).

 

Once you go E85 you wont want to go back. On a good E85 tune, its a totally different car in the low and mid range. Both on and off the track. It might not be useful outside of the track, I guess it depends on how you drive.

 

I know people think E85 is a bit of a hassle, and maybe it can be at times, but it brings my car alive. And I am hooked.

 

I will also add that I get 17+ MPG on E85.

So what parts do I need to run E85, my car is stock except for a K&N panel filter?

I also have a 1st Gen Accessport. someone should come up with a kit. It seems about .70 less than 93 octane in my area.

So what parts do I need to run E85, my car is stock except for a K&N panel filter?

I also have a 1st Gen Accessport. someone should come up with a kit. It seems about .70 less than 93 octane in my area.

 

Hmmm, can shops still tune the original Accessports?

 

What's your elevation?

 

You may be able to get away with stock fueling depending on your elevation. Even at 2,300 ft. above sea-level and zero WGDC above 5,000 rpm, I was stressing the stock fuel system. I would plan to upgrade the fuel pump, fuel injectors and a tune.