Now I understand...

...all the hoopla about getting these cars tweaked up. And I wonder why Subaru doesn't sell them this way in the first place: they could charge more, after all.

 

In the past couple of weeks, on my 08 Spec.B I've upgraded my wheels (to OZ Ultraleggeras) and tires (to Bridgestone RE950PP A/S in 235/40-18); put on the Cusco sway bar set (with serious links); added the Cobb shifter bushing to the SPT short shifter that came with the car; put on a lightweight crank pulley; and stepped up to Cobb Stage II with the Cobb (catted) downpipe.

 

Because I was Stage I-ed before, the power increase wasn't truly dramatic, but it's still obvious. The shifts are much more positive (I hadn't realized how sloppy the thing was before), and the ride is flatter in every respect. Turn-in feels better, which is partly the tires, I expect.

 

Why doesn't Subaru put all this stuff on as a big performance package and make lots of bucks from people like us? HPH

The Legacy GT is supposed to be a slightly refined tourer. It's a saloon car. The people who want a rugged stiff race car can buy the STI. The nice thing that Subaru has done for us, is build the Legacy with a bunch of potential. Plus, there are JDM models tuned by STI that are a little more "balls to the wall." We, here in USDM land, just get f***ed. Congrats on the mods though. I'm sure your car feels wonderful. Very well done.

Because most people don't buy a car with the intent to stop modifying at those levels, and the extra specialty parts don't please everyone. Its like trying to choose an exhuast that everyone would like enough not to change, its impossible. Most people who are intending to modify their cars would rather do it themselves and get exactly what they want rather than buying one predone that's exactly the same as everyone elses.

How long/hard was it to install the shifter bushings? Any noticeable increase in NVH?

Get a real custom tune done. It will be another severe increase in engine performance over what you have now.

NVH?

 

I had the work done at a local shop (with a lift, of course); it was a quickie for them. My previous car was a Honda S2000, and the bushing makes the SPT short-shifter feel more like that Honda 6-speed. I'm surprised at the difference.

 

And it's true that most people don't want this stuff on their Legacy, or they don't want to bother getting it done. My point, though, was that Subaru would be able to have a marketing field day with a performance package of this nature. Before the S2000, I had an (05) STi, and that's a completely different car from this tweaked Spec.B, much less civilized; more of a rally-type car. I bet there's a market for it out there. HPH

NVH is noise, vibration, and harshness.

 

As far as performance packages go they like to sell the SPT stuff. It isn't the same but I think they try to have a performance gap between the LGT, WRX, and STi for a reason.

Ah. Thanks.

Any noticeable increase in NVH?

With respect to the shifter bushing, none.

 

With respect to the sways, the ride is tighter and flatter, but there isn't any real decrease in its quality.

 

We have good-sized speed bumps around the campus here, and they taper to nothing in the gutters. I always put the outside tire in the gutter, hitting the bumps with only the inside wheels, and don't slow down much. I was wondering what would happen with the stiffer sway bar set, and I'm pleasantly surprised that it's just fine -- I can still hit those bumps well above the speed limit. (My V1 is quite helpful in this. ) HPH

Suspension choices are one thing, hence the spec. B variant.

 

Engine tuning is a whole different can of worms.

I suspect there are two main motivations for conservative tuning, reliability and emissions.

Cats are required to be warrantied for 10 years, which there's no way a high-flow cat could meet. CA emissions are especially stringent, so unless you want to produce two cars for the US with very different components you're stuck with the current exhaust.

 

Engine tuning has to do with making sure the engine survives knuckleheads who use bad gas, etc. Having engines not fail at 50k miles is far more important than losing 10-20 hp with a conservative tune.

Ultimately, scarificing

^^^ Oh so a conservative tune burns cleaner for emissions? Tell us more

Ah. Thanks.

 

With respect to the shifter bushing, none.

 

With respect to the sways, the ride is tighter and flatter, but there isn't any real decrease in its quality.

 

We have good-sized speed bumps around the campus here, and they taper to nothing in the gutters. I always put the outside tire in the gutter, hitting the bumps with only the inside wheels, and don't slow down much. I was wondering what would happen with the stiffer sway bar set, and I'm pleasantly surprised that it's just fine -- I can still hit those bumps well above the speed limit. (My V1 is quite helpful in this. ) HPH

 

The shift into 3rd is really sloppy and is the only thing I don't like about the shifter. I'm going to have to see if it's something I can do myself. Thanks.

There's a DIY thread somewhere about the bushing, as I recall. Get under the car, unbolt a couple of things, put it in, bolt 'em back up, I think.

 

I just had the shop do it when the sways went on (those, with the links, were way beyond my ambitions and abilities). The slop into 3rd vanishes, and everything feels smoother and more solid. HPH

^^^ Oh so a conservative tune burns cleaner for emissions? Tell us more

I did detect the sarcasm in that question of yours, but I can't help myself but tell him that a conservative tune kinda sorta also implies the map running richer, which means more fuel, which means worse emissions.

Personally I am trying to stay as green as possible and that's the reason why I like tunes that skirt the edge of safety on the err side, running as lean as possible, lol.

I rather have my tune a little on the rich side as apposed to lean. I'd rather not risk the pistons.

 

That's what I trust my tuner to do. More HP and not burn pistons. I can use the hp to drive faster, quicker and coast more, that way I can save gas.....yea, I just keep telling myself that.

Heh, that's what I get for not thinking about it a little more...

I will defer to the experts around here on tuning vs emissions, but emissions definitely determine the cat system.

Federal law requires a 10-yr/100k warranty on the emissions system, so expect you're going to get an extremely beefy cat, because Subaru doesn't want to pay for replacements.

 

As for tuning, I'd love to hear a discussion from a Subaru engineer about their engine tuning design decisions (ie, economy, performance, reliability).

Does anyone know if each car is individually tuned (I would suspect so)?

As for tuning, I'd love to hear a discussion from a Subaru engineer about their engine tuning design decisions (ie, economy, performance, reliability).

Does anyone know if each car is individually tuned (I would suspect so)?

 

Each *car*? No way in hell.

So I went and looked at the Cobb Map for 91 oct CA/AZ/NV gas, which is probably what the stock map is designed to deal with.

 

Cobb reports +2% HP, and +7% TQ, so realistically the Subaru stock tune is pretty good.

 

The main problem is the stock tune HAS to be designed to deal with CA gas, which limits the rest of you out there.

 

With a more advanced ECU/sensing system you could imagine the ECU automatically switching between 87/91/93 maps depending on what you've got in the tank. This would certainly help non-CA folks.

The stock tune has to be very conservative/safe in order to be able to run without issues on any and all Legacies out there, from sea level to Pike's Peak, on good gas and bad gas, etc etc. That is why there is always extra power and efficiency to be had out of pretty much any ECU out there.

As for tuning, I'd love to hear a discussion from a Subaru engineer about their engine tuning design decisions (ie, economy, performance, reliability).

Does anyone know if each car is individually tuned (I would suspect so)?

 

This is NOT the section for it. Go to the Tuning section of this forum, and start reading everything in sight until your eyes get fuzzy. If you don't know what a term is, look it up on Google. Lots of abbreviations. Once you learn, I bet you will be very happy with knowing what's going on. BTW I have no good grasp of HOW to actually tune my car and get it right and solid. But I do understand most tables and most variables, and can read logs soso. This means I can talk with a tuner, and more importantly, a tuner can talk with me. I assume this is what you want. It's super cool stuff. You don't need to be a capable tuner to take advantage of all the knowledge available to you. http://legacygt.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=84

Good suggestion. I debated whether to start this in the tuning forum, but it's really the whole package (including suspension & tires/wheels) that I'm talking about. This seemed like the best bet overall.

 

And, FWIW, my "tuning" is just the off-the-shelf Stage II 93 octane map. HPH

Good suggestion. I debated whether to start this in the tuning forum, but it's really the whole package (including suspension & tires/wheels) that I'm talking about. This seemed like the best bet overall.

 

And, FWIW, my "tuning" is just the off-the-shelf Stage II 93 octane map. HPH

 

What I'm saying is if you have a powertrain question, look there. If you have a Tuning question, look there. Suspension, look there.

And, FWIW, my "tuning" is just the off-the-shelf Stage II 93 octane map. HPH

 

So would you say the jump from I to II was worth it?

So would you say the jump from I to II was worth it?

 

Cobb 1 to Cobb 2 isn't much. Butt Cobb 2 to custom stage 2 tune is a huge difference in torque. Sorry, Had to jump on that!

How long/hard was it to install the shifter bushings? Any noticeable increase in NVH?

 

I have the Kartboy 6 speed STS with the front and rear bushings. Will always be the 1st mod on my cars. The 6 speed took a little longer to install because you have to thread the line for the 6 speed "reverse" collar up through the shifter. It took 30 minutes on my '06 WRX and almost an hour on my Spec B. It was easy though.

So would you say the jump from I to II was worth it?

That's very subjective and why I said originally "not dramatic" but "obvious". I made a conscious decision to blow some money on this car, and Stage II seemed like a good idea at the time. One difference is that the power onset is even smoother than before (it was better than the OEM hiccups with Stage I and now it's better than that). But with limited resources, I'd recommend the sway bars first.

 

 

I have the Kartboy 6 speed STS with the front and rear bushings.

This was a single Cobb bushing. I don't think they had to do all this stuff to get it in -- they didn't disassemble the shifter inside, for example (I would know -- it's a Momo knob with some booby traps for people who don't know the right tricks). But the difference is still impressive -- like I said, it feels more like that wonderful Honda S2000 shifter than the Subaru shorts (both on the STi and this car) I've had.