Need Help: Car Won't Start

This morning, I started my car, drove 3 minutes to my dad's house from my mom's to say goodbye, walked outside and my car won't start now. When I turn the key to 'ON' I get all the normal pre-startup lights and sounds (fuel pump priming, for example) but when I turn it to start, all I get is a click of what I am assuming is the starter solenoid, and then nothing.

 

I know the battery is fine, so I'm assuming it's a starter issue. My question for you guys is whether the following issue can help narrow down the problem: For the past few months, when I turn the key to start the car, sometimes it starts instantly. Other times, there can be up to a 1 second delay before the starter engages. There is no odd sound in between. No sound of the car TRYING to engage something, just a straight up delay. Meaning, if my car was more modern, and had electronic checks to go through, the delay would seem normal. Does this help anyone narrow down what the issue could be? Or does that just point even further toward a bad starter.

 

Also, does anyone have any suggestions for what to do to try and get the car started so that I can make it down to Virginia for work tomorrow? Help!

clean the battery post connections, and the connections at the starter. dirty and corroded connections will cause this issue.

 

old, worn, scorched, corroded, contacts in the solenoid can also cause this. a pretty easy fix, new contacts are about $15.

 

another possibility is there is not enough juice coming through the ignition switch to engage the solenoid. this can be tested by jumping a hot wire from the battery to the small spade connector on the starter solenoid when you have the key on. (and when it did not start.)

 

clean your battery connections, this is the most common cause. even when the poster says, '' i know the battery connections are good''.

Over at advance auto we do a battery check that can also do starters and alternators. What u do is put the connectors on the post it'll read how ur battery does then the guy should tell u to turn ur car on. That's when ur starter is tested and can tell u right away. Then after that he'll test the alternator by revving the car with loads off and then on. Shut car completely off and finally a drain test on the battery (if the battery checker is provided with a amp clamp). In the end a print out is made and handed to u. Hopefully that can answer some ur problems.

 

Or

 

Take ur starter out bring it to aap and have them test it with the alternator/starter tester in the back of the store (usually) they'll strap it down put all the connectors on it and begin testing. From there u can actually see if the shaft and gear has extended and spun. Also it does an electrical run and can tell u if the solenoid is bad. Or just by listening u can hear if any bearing r screwed up as well. Give it a few test to make sure. And the best part that all this cost NOTHING to get tested. Good luck

Well a half hour later I went back out and tried again, and it started up just fine. Made the trip down here (starting and stopping a few times with the various stops I made) and it never missed a beat. I did check the battery terminals before I made the OP... they aren't corroded, and they have a good, solid connection, and the battery is almost brand new (only a year or two old) and a good one.

 

Depending on how easy it is to take the starter out (I've never done it before, but I noticed it seems pretty easy to get to) maybe I'll have it tested, though I'm wondering what they do when testing it that would diagnose a random, intermittent problem (and seeing as I don't even know if the starter has EVER been replaced on this car, I assume they'll just probably tell me I should replace it anyway.) The FSM has a detailed procedure for dismantling the starter, so I guess I could actually just take it apart and see if it's all worn out inside (probably.)

Well it's ur car and u make the ultimate decision on whether or not u want to buy a new starter. On the screen itll give u a red screen or green screen. With specs. The best thing to do is listen carefully for any unusual noises on the starter. Like I tell my customers. If it ain't broke don't fix it. There's no reason y h should dump money into something that is working perfectly fine. Also just dawned in me it could be ur ignition switch as well. Perhaps when it's dead cold it'll give some problems. But once warmed up it's perfectly fine. We test those at aap as well. If u want to take it out and bring it down u can test it free of charge. Give it 3tests runs for best results. I kno a few ppl who've come to the store and bought battery,alt, and starter and still have the same issue. Also went as far as changing the ignition cylinder switch to still fail. In the end after all hope is lost tried the ignition switch and to their avail finally saw some light again lol.

Well what do you guys think is the most likely culprit? The starter, or the ignition switch? Both, I believe, are original (so 15 years old and 265k miles on 'em.)

Go with the starter first. That going to be the bigger problem. If the test comes back good then try ur switch

Do you guys know offhand (it's cold outside, so I'm being lazy) whether or not you can get the starter out without taking the intake tract and brace off like the FSM suggests? Not that it's difficult to do, but wondering if anyone knows if it's easy to just take it off on its own?

Uhm idk because (it's fukin cold out here too and I'm laying on a warm couch) and I don't remember if u can reach it from under or over the eng

first, it would be really uncommon of it to be wear inside the starter.

 

worn contacts in the solenoid is very common. pull the starter and remove a couple of small screws to see the contacts. they are right inside the end of the solenoid where the small spade connector. the solenoid is the smaller thing stuck on the side of the roundish starter. the contacts are cheap and there are good write ups on how to do it. if not here them on ultimatesubaru.org.

 

but before you do this test the ignition wiring one time when it does not start. i describe how to in a post above. the ignition switch and wiring does a really simple thing. it sends 12 volts to the small spade connector on the stater. this energizes the solenoid which activate a MAJOR electrical connection sending power to the starter motor.

 

so when the car will not start, jump a hot wire from the battery to the small spade connector on the starter solenoid. if the car starts it is the ignition circuit / wiring. this can bew corrected by adding a relay under the hood. for less than 15$ in parts. and in less time than pulling the starter.

 

to remove the starter, remove the top bolt from above, 14mm. and the bottom nut from below, 17mm. slide the starter back and then up and forward. i don't remember removing anything else but it has been a while.

 

starterrelay info

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/starting-problem-146156.html?t=146156&highlight=starterrelay

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?p=67805#post67805

Thanks for all the useful information. My question is, I was hearing a very distinct "click" when I turned the key (when the car would not start) which I assumed was the solenoid, so I would have assumed that meant everything up to and including the solenoid was functioning correctly... or can it perhaps only be partially working?

it probably means the contacts are bad.

 

but jumping 12 volts from the battery when it will not start will tell you one way or another.

Sounds like a plan. Hopefully if this happens again it will be not when it's freezing cold/raining/late for work.

 

So basically, it will happen when all three of those things are occurring, lol.

 

*prepares length of wire in advance*

 

EDIT: After looking at the walk-through for replacing the contacts, this sounds like a great thing for me to do when I have some spare time. It's VERY likely that's what my problem is. It would explain why sometimes I might get a slight delay before the car cranks, which would be the cylinder not immediately making good contact with the... contacts. Thank you SO MUCH for that link!

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=51255&highlight=replacing+starter+contacts

 

 

 

 

This is exactly how I resolved my starter "click-only" problem. But Cougar is right, a bad cable with corroded terminals or wiring will make a good starter act bad.

 

Photos of the worn contacts (89,000 miles) in the solenoid and the new ones before installation.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/2035000-2035999/2035802_9.jpghttp://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/2035000-2035999/2035802_8.jpg

 

 

Maybe the contacts are getting worn out.http://scripturewisdom.org/pics/startercontacts1.jpg

Sooo, not to keep beating a dead horse, but do you guys know whether these sorts of parts can be purchased from Subaru, or some other site, or do I have to find a "rebuild shop" nearby to annoy?

and a real how to, even though the starters look a little different.

 

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/12746-Denso-starter-contact-replacement

i have some contacts from subaru, but they are unlabeled so i don't know what years they fit.

 

let me know if you are interested.

I would assume they will fit if they look like the ones in this write-up:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/rebuild-your-starter-155382.html?t=155382&highlight=rebuild+starter

 

If you think they might be right, I would definitely be interested in exchange for a small sum!

Nevermind! Got in contact with a local company who is mailing me the contacts, as well as a new plunger, since they suggested I do that as well. Contacts were $2.50 each and the plunger was $9.95. Score!

Got in contact with a local company who is mailing me the contacts, as well as a new plunger, ..... Contacts were $2.50 each and the plunger was $9.95. Score!

 

company name and contact please. folks will need this.

 

congrats.

 

good luck.

Whoops. Meant to include that information:

 

Metro Heavy-Duty Distributors, Inc

1540 Plantation Road

Roanoke, VA 24012

1 (800) 296-8995

 

http://www.metroheavyduty.com/index.html

A bit more follow-up for people who might be interested. Got the parts in today (photo below.) For those who might be curious, the parts descriptions on the invoice are listed here (not sure how similar the starters are across different engines, years, or even if manual vs. auto has anything to do with it, but these parts are for my 1998 Legacy Outback Limited 2.5L w/ 4EAT):

 

SOL CONTACT ND

66-82756

 

http://www.iowamotorparts.com/images/66-82756.jpg

 

SOL CONTACT ND

66-82759

 

http://www.iowamotorparts.com/images/66-82759.jpg

 

PLUNGER ASSY ND-GR

66-82603

 

http://www.iowamotorparts.com/images/SND6452.gif

 

A quick Google search (which is where I got the above photos) reveals these to be, presumably, Denso replacement parts. If you search these part numbers you get several options for sites from which you can order them. Hope this helps anyone looking around, since the one thing I did not see on other threads about this issue were actual part numbers. Cheers!

 

 

EDIT: I cannot personally confirm that this kit works with our cars, but another users said it does, so perhaps this is an easier way of ordering the replacement parts:

https://www.amazon.com/Victory-Lap-ND-34SOL-Solenoid-Repair/dp/B0031HMS7C

So there are other how-to guides for replacing these contacts linked in this thread, but I figured I'd take a couple of photos too and add them right in this thread to make it more straightforward for some folks. So here are a few photos of the contact replacement process. Refer to my previous post (http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4179372&postcount=22) for more information about ordering the replacement parts themselves.

 

Starter Motor: Contact Replacement

 

EDIT: If any of these images ever fail to load properly, shoot me a PM. It appears Facebook sometimes alters the links to images and I have to update them before they work.

 

Once you've removed the starter, you should be looking at this.

 

 

If you flip it around, you will see a plate with three, small 7 mm bolts. In this photo, I've already removed one. This is the cover to the solenoid assembly. Remove these three bolts, and take the cover off (mind that there is a gasket between the cover and the housing.)

 

 

With the cover removed, you should be able to see the plunger assembly, and the two copper contacts on each side. You can simply remove the plunger by pulling it out.

 

 

Note when you remove the plunger, that this long (greased up) spring may or may not come out with it. You will need to swap this over to the new plunger (if it didn't come out, just make sure the new plunger goes into it when you slide it in. You can see the scoring and wear on the copper disk at the top (bottom in this photo) of the plunger.

 

 

Next, remove the bolt securing the power bridge from the starter motor to the solenoid. This reveals another nut (and there should be one on the other side in plain sight) that is recessed into a rubber base. You can get at this nut with a wrench from the side, as it protrudes up but only by about a millimeter. Kind of annoying, but they both turned rather easily, so it didn't cause as much of a problem as you would think by looking at it. Only unscrew one side at a time or you'll have a LOT of parts to keep track of.

 

 

You can see the stack of parts you will be working with.

 

 

Once you remove the nut, pull off the rubber seat. It has a washer inside it too, so don't lose that.

 

 

You can see here the collection of parts. From right to left, you have the bolt, a small and large rubber gasket, then a metal spacer, then the copper contact you will be replacing (L-shaped, so you can see it protrudes out to the left from underneath) then a thin metal plate that is attached to that small wire connector underneath. You probably don't want to mess with that too much, and then the square head of the copper bolt.

 

 

I'm not sure how robust the wire connecting that thin metal plate is, so I suggest just pushing the bolt through, that way you can take it out and slide the copper contact out without disturbing the location of that metal plate too much. Then just slide the new one in, and then push the bolt back through!

 

 

Don't forget the two rubber spacers.

 

 

The contact on the other side is slightly different. There is no metal plate connected to the small wire on that side, so you can actually push the bolt through and remove all the parts. On this side, the bolt is fatter, and has splines (you can just barely see them in this photo) so that it seats against the copper contact and doesn't move. I tapped the old one off using the head of my wrench, and pressed the new one in using lockjaws.

 

 

Then put that back together, reconnect the power bridge, slide in the new plunger, put the cover back on and you're good to go!

 

Here are some comparison photos of the wear on the old contacts.

 

 

You can see a clear groove where the copper has been completely worn away over the past 265k miles of starting.

 

 

 

Finally, a close-up of the old and new plungers.

 

ok, great pics, thanks.

 

but i gotta ask, DOES IT START NOW??????????????

Lol, well it only didn't start at ALL that one time. It seems to have resolved the up-to-one-second-delay when I turn the key so far, but that also didn't ALWAYS happen (though it WAS becoming increasingly frequent.) So I feel I can confidently say that this has resolved the issue, but only time will tell.