Clutch won't disengage

Driving the other day I had a tough time getting the car out of gear for a 2-3 shift. From that point I couldn't engage any gears with the engine running. Engine off, I can select all gears and can hear them all click into place properly, so the trans is fine. There was no unusual noise associated with the failure. Had driven about 10 miles on the freeway and changed gears from 5-4-3-2 on the offramp, then after accelerating in 2nd switching up to 3 felt like clutchless shifting (when you mistime it and you feel a lot of drag on disengagement, bot not any kind of grinding or catching)

 

Clutch pedal feels normal. Fluid level good. Not leaking. Slave cylinder moves the shift fork, and does not retract while the pedal is held down. Pumping the pedal quickly does not increase the travel of the slave cylinder. Last clutch and fluid replacement was about 2 years ago with genuine Subaru parts.

 

If I start the engine with the trans in 1st and the clutch pedal to the floor the car lurches as if the clutch is not pressed (although the clutch interlock would normally prevents the lurch, because the pedal is being pressed the interlock is disengage)

 

It is sitting at the dealership right now. Any ideas?

 

I have considered (and rejected) the following:

 

- No hydraulic fluid: Slave cylinder moves and fluid level is normal. No external leaks noted.

- Air in hydraulic line: System has not been opened in 2 years. Air could only get through a hole, which would leak under pressure rather than absorb air.

- Pressure plate/flywheel/clutch plates stuck: Maybe if the car had sat for a while, but it's my DD and was driving at the time of failure.

- Master or slave cylinder piston seal failure: The slave cylinder moves when I press the clutch and does not retract until I release the pedal. I would expect a major piston seal failure to prevent the slave from moving at all, and a minor failure to see the piston retract slowly.

 

- Clutch pedal height adjustment (under dash) came loose, moving biting point down bleow the carpet: This is my current prime suspect. None of my observations rule this out. I adjusted this about 2 years ago, it's possible the adjustment has wandered.

 

 

The car is sitting at the subaru dealer waiting for them to take a look "early in the week". I will call in there in the morning and give them the above observations to help their tech, and to manually check the pedal height adjustment myself. I also want to make sure I catch on video that the trans currently select all gears normally while the engine is off - don't want someone to try to He-Man it into gear and snap a shift fork and blame that on me.

 

Video of slave cylinder test:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaTchiegh4Y]Troubleshooting failed clutch - YouTube[/ame]

Dealer says problem is inside the bellhousing - trans and clutch hydraulics are fine. They quote me for a clutch job ($1200) and they are doing that now, with the additional request that they diagnose the failure, not just fix it.

 

Still haven't checked the pedal height adjustment yet, though. They promised to check that prior to removing the trans.

Looks like the slave pin has pretty good throw and the fork moves like it should.

 

Pop off the shift fork boot and take a look inside the trans with a scope if you have one. It might be a broken PP spring.

1200 is out the door.

Dealer says problem is inside the bellhousing - trans and clutch hydraulics are fine. They quote me for a clutch job ($1200) and they are doing that now, with the additional request that they diagnose the failure, not just fix it.

 

Still haven't checked the pedal height adjustment yet, though. They promised to check that prior to removing the trans.

 

$1200 for an OEM clutch job is a bit high. We charge less and we are located in the NY/NJ market where rent is ridiculous and salaries moreso!

 

-Mike Paisan

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg

Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001.

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True Mike, but I'll bet you don't charge the same labor rates.

OP check the recent post in the sticky at the top of this forum

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/compilation-available-clutches-bp-bl-127691p5.html

Interesting...

 

 

 

Went over to the dealership to check out the car. They have it all put back together and have even had it out on a test drive. I requested the old parts back and when I got to the service bay I saw the parts were laid out ready for me to pick up tomorrow (car is not quite ready).

 

 

 

There is nothing visibly wrong with the clutch... The friction plate appears to be about 75% of the way through it's service life (when I replaced the first one at ~65k miles the rivets on the pressure plate side were scraped clean - there is about 1mm material left above the rivet head on this one). No broken fingers, no broken springs. I'll try to get the final word from the tech tomorrow, but as it sits right now the old clutch appears to be serviceable - no clue why it wouldn't disengage. The TOB is intact although the bearings are showing the beginnings of Subaru TOB disease (rough bearings at 60-70k that will eventually lead to chirping then failure). The TOB, like the clutch, appears to be serviceable but close to end-of-life. The TOB had about 5k left on it, so the clutch job would have come due in the next 3 months for my volume of driving, so the clutch service was definitely needed.

 

 

 

I have not seen the bill yet but I was not asked to approve a flywheel or any other components.

 

 

 

Just confused right now as I have no current explanation for the failure-to-disengage.

BTW, I got my clutch from an online subaru dealership 4 years ago (will name it if I can find which one) when I did the first clutch job. This Subaru tech today noted that I had a "inferior brand" and was "not happy with the clutch I put in there". The hub on the friction plate is labelled "Subaru" and "Sachs Germany".

 

I made the call a long time ago that I'm keeping this car indefinitely so even though it's nearly 10 years old I use dealer parts on it. I though I was putting a Subaru clutch in there. Is Sachs not the OEM manufacturer?

 

My new clutch today is a stock Subaru unit. I don't have any need for an upgraded unit - I'm near 40 years old and this is my commuter car so reliability is priority #1.

That's a good dealer price. Mine wanted 1600-1800 I was curious and it's cold here. Could never rationalize paying that when I can do it myself. Exedy makes the factory clutches from what I have read. I had a 98 outback that started with your same symptoms. It had 220k on the clock so figures clutch time. We'll after I replaced the clutch which looked about half life it drove fine for about 500 miles. Then lost 4th then 3rd and 5th would pop out of gear while driving. Drove it for another 12k miles that way. Ended up being the synchro's had failed. I hope for your case it was a bad clutch.

The clutch I put in at 65k was this:

 

DescriptionUnit priceQtyAmountSubaru Legacy GT O.E.M. Clutch Kit

Item# $285.00 USD1$285.00 USD

Fred Beans Parts. 2009-11-29.

I thought this was a Subaru clutch... is it not?

 

Could this have been a NA clutch? I just searched for Sachs Germany clutch and found this:

 

Fits the following 2005 Subaru Legacy submodels:

 

 

• 2005: GT Limited; 4 Cyl 2.5L; "Naturally Aspirated"
  

 

 

We use OEM clutches as well and they are Exedy based but we still get them from Subaru just for peace of mind.

 

-Mike Paisan

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg

Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

I know it is too late to help, but I just saw this thread.

 

I had exactly the same thing happen with my setup. The slave cylinder was moving as expected and you could see the fork move the TOB, but there was no disengagement of the clutch. On my car it appears that the PP had rusted in place. I couldn't tell if it was hung up on some dowels or if the face had just stuck to the clutch disc.

 

I got the clutch to start working again by putting the car in reverse (engine off), cranking it (which caused it to lurch backwards). I picked up a bunch of speed in reverse then slammed on the brakes with the clutch pedal to the floor first. after a few dozen disengagements, the clutch went back to normal.

 

Interesting...

 

 

 

Went over to the dealership to check out the car. They have it all put back together and have even had it out on a test drive. I requested the old parts back and when I got to the service bay I saw the parts were laid out ready for me to pick up tomorrow (car is not quite ready).

 

 

 

There is nothing visibly wrong with the clutch... The friction plate appears to be about 75% of the way through it's service life (when I replaced the first one at ~65k miles the rivets on the pressure plate side were scraped clean - there is about 1mm material left above the rivet head on this one). No broken fingers, no broken springs. I'll try to get the final word from the tech tomorrow, but as it sits right now the old clutch appears to be serviceable - no clue why it wouldn't disengage. The TOB is intact although the bearings are showing the beginnings of Subaru TOB disease (rough bearings at 60-70k that will eventually lead to chirping then failure). The TOB, like the clutch, appears to be serviceable but close to end-of-life. The TOB had about 5k left on it, so the clutch job would have come due in the next 3 months for my volume of driving, so the clutch service was definitely needed.

 

 

 

I have not seen the bill yet but I was not asked to approve a flywheel or any other components.

 

 

 

Just confused right now as I have no current explanation for the failure-to-disengage.

SACHS is the OEM manufacturer for the 4th Gen Legacy GT DMFW clutch setup. Typically Exedy is the OEM NA SMFW clutch setup. When I replaced the DMFW setup in my 05 Legacy GT, it was all SACHS pieces - except possibly the TOB.

Mike - that would make sense because Exedy is the OEM setup for the 6MT.

I'll talk to the tech directly today and find out what his concern about the prior clutch was.

I didn't realize the OP was using the Dual Mass clutch setup. I didn't know even dealers installed those anymore! That makes perfect sense why the cost is so high as well, the cost for the clutch kit for the DMFW is ridiculously high. Higher than a new SMFW + Clutch Kit!

 

-mike

The DMFW has not been replaced or resurfaced. Apparently it's fine.

The DMFW has not been replaced or resurfaced. Apparently it's fine.

 

You should at the very least resurface the flywheel. Dealer won't resurface they will replace. Expect chatter!

If it chatters, they get to do the work again.

I've seen a lot of negative comments about resurfacing the DMFW...but the bigger issue is that it's dual mass and there's a binder agent holding those two pieces together. That binder breaks down over time.

I'm surprised the dealer didn't address the flywheel. I hope it works out for you. That's saves you close to $400.