Dealership antics

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/08/17/why-older-people-get-scammed-more_n_1796079.html

To be honest, I agree with MN3.6R. It's a shame, but I think an 80 year old would likely need some help purchasing a car if a loan is part of the equation.

Maybe she figured the extended warranty and prepaid maintenance might be a good idea should she have to pass on the car to someone else.

I don't want to come across as an A-hole but it's up to the buyer to read and understand what they are signing for, whether they are 18 or 80. And they surely don't just try and add things you don't want or didn't ask for. Sure they will try and sell you everything in the book from VIN Etching, to clear bra to warranties and service plans and all of that, but if the person says no they can't put it on and you have to sign decline or accept usually.

I worked at a dealership for 3 years, and quite simply, you're wrong. All dealerships will tell you 'our dealership would never do such a thing', blah, blah, blah. Well, the fact is many dealerships out there will. I have seen customers signing for add-ons and they had no clue they were signing them. The finance manager shows them numbers on the computer for payment, tells them we need you to sign here, initial there, sign there, and people enter into a trust not knowing their buying the 'croak and choke' insurance, or GAP. Then there's the...'we can get you financed, but the bank will only do it if you buy mechanical coverage. They want to make sure their investment is protected and that you will be able to cover repairs should a breakdown happen. Otherwise they cannot finance it....or the rate goes from 8% to 11%). I've seen customers get 'blanked'...they sign the finance form with their name on there, the vehicle vin and info, and their signature. No numbers, because 'we need to send this over to see if they'll approve it'. Next thing you know, there's add-ons, or the rate goes from 'it should be 6%' to something higher. Taking advantage of people because they give you an ounce of trust is no excuse.

She is old, they were probably extremely nice to her, and helpful too. She told them she had $20k down and found a car she wants. She was probably not even aware of all the extra add on garbage available. They threw it on there, reading that stuff is quite intimidating and when you have someone who you think gives you a quick over view you believe them. The fact that they purposely leave out that they're adding on is also illegal. Unfortunately, older people and foreigners who don't know better yet are big targets for this.

... Unfortunately, older people and foreigners who don't know better yet are big targets for this.

...and any other unsuspecting person they can take advantage of. I learned the hard way when I was much younger and naive. "What would you like your payment to be :lol:"

I would not do business with any dealership who takes advantage of people. Those who say buyer beware - fine. But, when their elderly mom gets screwed because she did not understand or spend 10hrs reading the fine print, maybe they would feel differently - especially if they have to help mom out with her bills.

...and any other unsuspecting person they can take advantage of. I learned the hard way when I was much younger and naive. "What would you like your payment to be :lol:"

 

I would not do business with any dealership who takes advantage of people. Those who say buyer beware - fine. But, when their elderly mom gets screwed because she did not understand or spend 10hrs reading the fine print, maybe they would feel differently - especially if they have to help mom out with her bills.

It's not the fine print though. Plain and simple if she signed for any extras they would be included and in normal writing. If she didn't sign for it, it didn't happen. Otherwise it would be illegal, and as much as people like to think dealerships are slimy, well they can be, but believe me they aren't doing anything illegal nor would most.

I worked at a dealership for 3 years, and quite simply, you're wrong. All dealerships will tell you 'our dealership would never do such a thing', blah, blah, blah. Well, the fact is many dealerships out there will. I have seen customers signing for add-ons and they had no clue they were signing them. The finance manager shows them numbers on the computer for payment, tells them we need you to sign here, initial there, sign there, and people enter into a trust not knowing their buying the 'croak and choke' insurance, or GAP. Then there's the...'we can get you financed, but the bank will only do it if you buy mechanical coverage. They want to make sure their investment is protected and that you will be able to cover repairs should a breakdown happen. Otherwise they cannot finance it....or the rate goes from 8% to 11%). I've seen customers get 'blanked'...they sign the finance form with their name on there, the vehicle vin and info, and their signature. No numbers, because 'we need to send this over to see if they'll approve it'. Next thing you know, there's add-ons, or the rate goes from 'it should be 6%' to something higher. Taking advantage of people because they give you an ounce of trust is no excuse.

 

She is old, they were probably extremely nice to her, and helpful too. She told them she had $20k down and found a car she wants. She was probably not even aware of all the extra add on garbage available. They threw it on there, reading that stuff is quite intimidating and when you have someone who you think gives you a quick over view you believe them. The fact that they purposely leave out that they're adding on is also illegal. Unfortunately, older people and foreigners who don't know better yet are big targets for this.

And judging by your comments I can tell you were not in the sales dept. These are way off of what a modern day large name dealership will do. One the typically interest rate increase is .5-1% and yes they do it most of the time, nothing shady about it, the finance guy brokers to get you a loan instead of you calling around trying to find one, same with buying a mortgage from a broker, do you think they don't bump it? Nothing illegal. Second, I have never seen nor even heard of someone signing a blank purchase agreement..and anyone that would is stupid as hell.Also in 5 years have I ever heard someone try and stack extras on by claiming the bank won't take it without, that would be fraud and any reputable dealer wouldn't do that. GAP insurance sometimes is a good thing to have, so pushing that is debatable. Anyone looking at buying a brand new car with no or little money down SHOULD by GAP at a reasonable price. Again you must have worked in one hell of a shady dealership because this is not common anymore, sure maybe back in the 80's but we are beyond that. And don't think old people are all stupid. If she is buying a $26K car with 20K down and they tell her she is going to be financing $15k and they don't catch something they shouldn't be allowed to drive. I am not in the automotive sales anymore so I have no need to defend them, but simple economics here: Dealerships are not churches, they are FOR profit. People want to buy cars for less than invoice and then would bitch if they found out that the finance guy bumped their rate by .5% so the dealership and employees could actually have a job.

And judging by your comments I can tell you were not in the sales dept. These are way off of what a modern day large name dealership will do. One the typically interest rate increase is .5-1% and yes they do it most of the time, nothing shady about it, the finance guy brokers to get you a loan instead of you calling around trying to find one, same with buying a mortgage from a broker, do you think they don't bump it? Nothing illegal. Second, I have never seen nor even heard of someone signing a blank purchase agreement..and anyone that would is stupid as hell.Also in 5 years have I ever heard someone try and stack extras on by claiming the bank won't take it without, that would be fraud and any reputable dealer wouldn't do that. GAP insurance sometimes is a good thing to have, so pushing that is debatable. Anyone looking at buying a brand new car with no or little money down SHOULD by GAP at a reasonable price. Again you must have worked in one hell of a shady dealership because this is not common anymore, sure maybe back in the 80's but we are beyond that. And don't think old people are all stupid. If she is buying a $26K car with 20K down and they tell her she is going to be financing $15k and they don't catch something they shouldn't be allowed to drive. I am not in the automotive sales anymore so I have no need to defend them, but simple economics here: Dealerships are not churches, they are FOR profit. People want to buy cars for less than invoice and then would bitch if they found out that the finance guy bumped their rate by .5% so the dealership and employees could actually have a job.

Well maybe you can enlighten me as to what I did for 3 years. You can just tell This whole idea that rates are marked up .5-1% at most is just not true. On new cars, going through the manufacturer financing like Subaru, Honda, Toyota, etc yes the mark up is that. However, a used Toyota at a Subaru dealership is a little different and you know that. If you have a customer with a 750 credit score, it's pretty straight forward. When you have a 630 score, and they may not fully understand the processes involved because they are new to the country or have a hard time getting financed, a dealership tends to take advantage of the situation. Mark ups on rates go up to 3%. It's wholesaled at say 6.9%, it's pushed at 9.9% retail. You can't possibly be shocked by this. The warranty is also pushed in finance.

Part of a saleman's job, as well as a finance guy's job, is to know what customer you have. You 'try him on'. Now there are ways to do it. No doubt, the #1 job of a dealership is to make money. Now there are some who push it way too far. The OP in this thread is an example of that. You claim old people are not dumb. Fine, and you're right. Are you telling me this old woman was explained everything and she went ahead and purchased all of the extras? I'm going to guess not. There's a synapses on price, sign here, initial there, a brief description of what everything is, but no full truth of what some of those initials are. This isn't a common occurrence because most people don't fall for it, but when an opportunity presents itself many dealerships will do it. That's not to say that it's the dealerships guideline to do something like that, you just have a certain salesmen or managers who do that. It's also a culture of 'oh well, we did end up making more profit' turn a blind eye there too. There are plenty of examples of this. Same with pushing a warranty by using the old 'the bank will finance you, but they want to see you have protection with the car before they loan you their money'. There are plenty of examples of that too. Again, it doesn't work or is even tried most of the time. However, when the opportunity is there, it's pushed in that manner. To me, that's taking advantage of the situation.

Dealerships are not churches! LOL. Fact is my cuz has owns 8 + new car dealerships. she has 340+ employees. she owns a Subaru dealership. I vacation at one of her homes in the tropics. The owner makes $2100 a car. A good month, 600 cars are sold. She gets free cars from the manufacturers. Free trips to Stuttgart, lots of perks. Bonuses and rebates. The sales people don't make as much as the owners. The F+I job is the best job otherwise. Dont feel sorry for the dealers. To buy from a relative is to pay full price and pile on the extras. Frustrating, since mom should have just kept it in the family. Like Vegas, suckers built those buildings.

Very true, I don't dispute any of it, and dealers have a right to make money. They have a right to try and sell the car for as much as they can...but if we're honest and forthright, there are some iffy ways that are gone about doing it too. It's a tough job, and you get 'beaten' into the dog eat dog mentality. Oh, and that's not to add that customers are equally as bad and worse. The lies that come from them far outnumber any advantage a dealership takes of people, including hiding the facts on the junk their trading in. It's hard to put into words, but it's a very unique job and industry. And yes, finance guys make all the money but man they're married to that job. It's their wife and mistress all in one!

They took off over $5,000. As I threatened to stain their Internet reputation. Like i said earlier, if you're going for the whole enchilada, oil changes, prepaid maintenace, extended warranties, finanace insurance.. Etc. you should buy it from a friend or relative. The dealership in Merrillville, IN, however is like any other dealership, run by RATS.

Obviously, there are those in this thread that would disagree with you, but I am not one of them. I would not say that all stealerships are run by rats. But, I do agree that one that sells $5000 in extras to an 80 year old lady would most likely fall into that category. Good thing that you were watching out for her.