Handling on ice

I Just bought a used 1998 Legacy Outback and when I test drove it when the weather was fine, it handled very well! But now that the weather has come and temperatures dropped, the back end is fighting me the whole way... I'm not sure but I believe it might just need an alignment because other than that, its perfect! Please help!

Thanks

Can you clarify what the symptoms are?

 

Only guessing on practically no info....... Tires first, are the all the same size? If no, that's a big problem. If they are, are they all the same age, as in, are they are worn the same amount? If not, that's a big problem.

 

If they are, then it could be an alignment, or worn/damaged suspension components.

I think what he means is the car is tail-happy, which I love

 

Slow down and stay off the gas in corners.

Sweet! You have a touring wagon?

 

Super cold temps will make your tires not as grippy. My wagon is pretty tail happy too.

Mine is squirrelly with snow tires and an alignment. I think the manual cars with the 50 50 torque split are more apt to going sideways

On ice, even a 4X4 will go squirrelly unless you take it real easy. I remember driving my Nissan 4WD on a road with snow over ice- fishtailed like crazy. Curious to see how my Subie does since this is my first winter with it. They're actually talking about icy conditions in these parts on Sunday.

Mine is squirrelly with snow tires and an alignment. I think the manual cars with the 50 50 torque split are more apt to going sideways

 

My 96 with the 4EAT at speeds above 45 MPH in low traction areas (gravel, sand, snow, etc..) would float all over the place. The problem is that, at those speeds, only 10% of the power is being sent back there if there is no difference between front and rear wheel speed (i.e. the front wheels aren't "slipping"). My 98 5MT was way more planted all over the place. Both cars can do whatever you'd like, with perfect control, so long as you know how to control the car. I think the 5MT just offers finer controls, especially at speed.

 

So, unless you have some sort of mechanical issue, it's all about learning how to control your car man.

^^^This. Though I just went AWD drifting in my 99' 5MT BD I can say that the car really was planted like Ken said. Best fun ever!

if it is an auto trans,

shift it into 2 and drive carefully.

 

probably the same for a manual trans.

I would have thought these cars can go anywhere from all what I have read and heard... I know it can be tricky to handle anything on ice, but how are these cars in plain old snow? I didn't drive our 1st gen much in the bad weather but I don't recall my wife (who can have a heavy foot) having any issues with it.

 

They're calling for an ice storm here in VA on Sunday but I don't plan on having any of my AWD cars out there it if I can help it.

At least you know your AWD works! LOL Our cars are great in adverse weather. I have yet to get stuck in either of the Legacys I've owned. Last winter we had a good snow fall with high winds which caused a lot of drift snow. I went through an alley and the snow was up to my doors, I still made it through. I do have Outback wheels with snow tires so I gain almost 2" of ground clearance.

I have brand new snow tires on my 99lgt and I have to make it drift it doesn't get tail happy unless I make it. Maybe your tires aren't snow happy.

I'm guessing mine should do OK. I don't have snow tires (don't generally use them in the Piedmont of Virginia) but do have a new set of Michelins. I would hope it can keep up with my old Nissan Hardbody 4X4 and my wife's AWD Toyota Sienna in the snow (actually the Sienna is only AWD in forward gear so I know the Legacy has got it beat there).

My car does awesome in the snow! If you think your car is tail happy try a 2wd s10. Snow tires will make a good improvement also. What psi are your tires at? Lowering the rear pressure a bit will help with rear grip.

 

My car struggles with understeer so later on im going to look for a bigger rear sway.

My 1997 Outback has had absolutely no problems in the snow / cold. It's one of the reasons I purchased the car. I do have brand new Michelin all seasons on it. If the tail end is fighting you it's my opinion something is wrong.

Agree with what everyone else has said. If you are having problems with the rear end stepping out that much, either you suck at driving on snow, or you have some sort of mechanical issue! Lol.

I tried my Legacy (with a 4EAT) out driving on a coating of sleet on the roads today. I thought it held the road really well. I only felt a little sliding when I pushed a little hard into a turn. The braking was good too. Again, I had too brake a little hard for the conditions to kick ABS in.

We had our first good snow fall here in Milw and my LGT did just fine. The ass kicks out when I want it to and it's funny when I leave stop lights, my car blazes through the snow where fwd/rwd's just spin they're tires. One thing I did notice today and know it did it last winter but I forgot, was I can feel when the trans engages the rear tires. There's a slight thud. I am not concerned because its probably due to my trans mount being really worn and I have to replace it soon. Mind you it doesn't happen all of the time just when I roll out from a stop then hammer down on the throttle. LOL. Knock on wood but when ever something goes my Wrx swap begins. Hopefully not till after I buy the new 2014 Arctic Cat Wildcat Trail Xt in February. Can't wait!!!

I ditched my '03 wagon so many times back in the snow it ain't funny! Why? Cuz I was a knuckle head driving too fast for the conditions.

 

Like everybody said slow down! Another Thought and correct me if I'm wrong but subaru's are the king of drift. They are built for drift so they are gonna slide. It's up to you to learn how to control it.

 

An if you wanna make a monster out of your car I met a fella up in Newfoundland Canada that put studded snow tires on all four. Wow! that thing plough up those steep roads like nothing!

 

 

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Another Thought and correct me if I'm wrong but subaru's are the king of drift. They are built for drift so they are gonna slide. It's up to you to learn how to control it.

 

That's the worst logic I have ever heard. Subarus are not "going to slide" because they are "built for drift." First off, they aren't set up to drift. They have AWD, which makes it easier for you to drift the car in the snow if you so choose, but does not make the car more likely to drift. It's what the driver does with the car that determines what the car does. Just because you see people drifting their cars in the snow, or pictures of Subaru rally cars sliding sideways everywhere does not mean that Subaru's road cars are more likely to slide sideways than other vehicles. What it means is that people are more comfortable making the car slide sideways than in other vehicles. They are more comfortable pushing the car beyond its limits.

 

 

An if you wanna make a monster out of your car I met a fella up in Newfoundland Canada that put studded snow tires on all four. Wow! that thing plough up those steep roads like nothing!

 

Actually, today's winter tire compounds are better than studded tires in a lot of situations. I'll quote from TireRack:

 

Establishing the Firestone Winterforce studded winter tire's 60-foot acceleration times as our basis of comparison (and assigning it a traction index of 100), we found that the slightly faster Michelin X-Ice earned a traction index of 101, while the faster still Dunlop Graspic DS-2 earned a traction index of 108, and the new Bridgestone Blizzak WS60 tires completed the course with the fastest time and earned a traction index of 115. We were surprised when all three of today's high-technology studless winter / snow tires were able to provide more acceleration traction on ice than the studded winter / snow tires!

 

Then we demonstrated each tire's ability to corner on ice as the car negotiated a simulated 90-degree right hand street corner while maintaining a predetermined speed. With traffic cones set every 6 feet along a line representing the center of the road being turned onto, we could determine how tight an arc the tire's traction would allow the car to maintain.

 

During the cornering test, the Blizzak WS60 consistently completed our 90-degree right hand street corner at the target speed without making contact with any cones, followed by the Graspic DS-2 and the X-Ice. Surprisingly, the studded Firestone Winterforce had the most difficult time completing the corner.

 

At the end of this test we learned that today's advanced tread compound and design technologies exceeded that of the traditional traction of studs on ice. Considering that only about six studs are in contact with the ice at any one time as the tire rolls across its surface, we found that the weak link is the ice itself, which chips away during contact with the studs. The ruts left on the surface of the ice showed that the studs were making contact, but the ice itself just wasn't strong enough to be considered a good traction partner for the tires.

 

Especially considering the unacceptable noise generated when studs contact dry and wet roads, we recommend using today's advanced tread compound and design technologies to drive through snow and on ice in winter.

Well like I said correct me if I'm wrong. And you have sufficiently corrected me. The tire deal I'll have to look into some more.

 

 

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Lol, sorry. I was in a bad mood earlier AND slightly hung over.

No problem.

 

 

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i wonder how a half-used snow tire from those tests would stack up to a half-worn studded tire?

I dunno. Probably the same on ice, since tread depth doesn't really matter at that point. Though it's worth noting that on most winter tires, only the first 2/3 of the thread are made of the winter compound, after which you are riding on regular rubber. There are separate wear bars in the tread to identify when you have reached this point.

On a 4EAT lock the front and rear 50/50 by putting it into 1st (or 2nd if you want less torque to the wheels off-idle). Will stay in either 1st or 2nd and power transfer will be very much like the 5MT - very even - front to rear. As soon as you shift into 3rd or Drive, it goes back to 90F/10 rear until slip is detected.