CEL: P0011 A Camshaft Position System Performance (Bank 1)

Guy at AutoZone said it may be for dirty or low oil...timing belt...or AVCS.

 

Car appears to be running fine...the oil is only 1000 miles in since last change and the level is at "F" on the dipstick.

 

He cleared it and it came back within 2 minutes of driving.

 

If no one has worked on this one specifically I will take it in to have it looked at.

 

Any help is appreciated. Thank you.

Get ready to buy a new turbo

Get ready to buy a new turbo

 

Huh?! Not what I wanted to hear...saw a few other posts through google search on various forums and nothing sounded serious.

 

What are you basing this on??

Took it in today and since AutoZone cleared the code and freeze frame data there wasn't much they could do. I told him about the banjo filter and horror stories I read online and he laughed and said "Don't believe everything you read on the internet." He didn't seem very concerned about it and said he would give it a thorough check for all of the common causes.

 

In the end I got my 30,000 mile service completed (transmission fluid, front and rear diff fluid, coolant fluid - $400 including diagnostics) and the car seems to be running fine.

 

He said to just bring it in with the light if it comes on again. He mentioned it may be the OCV but he couldn't do anything with it unless I had the code. He mentioned it would be replaced with parts and labor covered by the warranty.

 

So I have 30,000 miles and 1 year to make this thing come on again. Might be holding off on any sort of exhaust modes until my warranty is gone.

the code is basically saying you're getting low oil feed/pressure at the sensor that leads up from the oil control valves to the AVCS.

 

My understanding of the problem is that the sensor that throws the code is before the split for the pipe that feeds your turbo. SO, if you're throwing the code, you MAY be starving your turbo of oil.

 

I threw this code last month, cleaned my oil control valves, and the turbo was still dead within 100 miles. AND, the turbo was only a year old.

 

Good luck

the code is basically saying you're getting low oil feed/pressure at the sensor that leads up from the oil control valves to the AVCS.

 

My understanding of the problem is that the sensor that throws the code is before the split for the pipe that feeds your turbo. SO, if you're throwing the code, you MAY be starving your turbo of oil.

 

I threw this code last month, cleaned my oil control valves, and the turbo was still dead within 100 miles. AND, the turbo was only a year old.

 

Good luck

 

Sure that happened in your situation and that stinks. In this case, I am under warranty, I took it in for service, I have 1 year and 30,000 miles left and they checked for this exact problem with no sense of urgency at all. I even asked him if I throw the code again if I should have the car towed...he laughed. I'm not saying it won't happen, but that there are many causes of this code and starving your turbo of oil is only one of them.

 

I felt sick this morning because I thought I was going to be screwed, but I feel pretty comfortable with my service tech after talking with him and believe they will take care of me if something does happen.

The symptom that throws the code is the intake cam advance angle not being in the appropriate position. The cam advance is controlled by the ECU, but is regulated with a valve (the OCV), oil pressure, the VVT mechanism in the cam sprocket, and the cam position sensor.

 

If the ECU is commanding the OCV to send oil pressure to the VVT mechanism, but the cam position sensor isn't showing it advancing, it will trigger the code. However it does take two driving cycles with the fault.

 

Low oil pressure is one thing that will cause the malfunction, and it just so happens that the passenger side OCV is fed by the same line as the turbo. If the blockage is upstream of the split in that line, it can cause turbo failure as well. Since there is a small filter in the bolt that is upstream of that split, it can get clogged which will cause both the code and the turbo failure. People have come to expect that the code means turbo failure when in reality it means there is another problem, of which turbo failure might be a symptom if left unresolved.

thank you for further clarifying my explanation Underdog.

 

that's about as knowledgeable as I could have hoped for

The symptom that throws the code is the intake cam advance angle not being in the appropriate position. The cam advance is controlled by the ECU, but is regulated with a valve (the OCV), oil pressure, the VVT mechanism in the cam sprocket, and the cam position sensor.

 

If the ECU is commanding the OCV to send oil pressure to the VVT mechanism, but the cam position sensor isn't showing it advancing, it will trigger the code. However it does take two driving cycles with the fault.

 

Low oil pressure is one thing that will cause the malfunction, and it just so happens that the passenger side OCV is fed by the same line as the turbo. If the blockage is upstream of the split in that line, it can cause turbo failure as well. Since there is a small filter in the bolt that is upstream of that split, it can get clogged which will cause both the code and the turbo failure. People have come to expect that the code means turbo failure when in reality it means there is another problem, of which turbo failure might be a symptom if left unresolved.

 

The service tech said perhaps a faulty OCV valve could be the cause. He didn't explitly say he checked the banjo bolt filter everyone talks about but he did say he checked all of the commone problems including "filters" so I imagine that is what he is referring to.

 

Thoughts on the OCV valve just going bad and the chances it isn't just a blockage of some sort? I just bought the car so I don't have record of all oil changes but I don't have reason to believe they weren't performed as it was a corporate lease vehicle and I would hope that maintenance was in the "plan" but I could be wrong.

 

On a side note, I asked him about oil changes: No more than 3,000 miles and just use conventional oil. No super synthetic required as long as you change every 3,000 miles.

Based on what I've seen on the forum (meaning: take this with a grain of salt) they are both very common failures, the faulty OCV and the "blocked" filter. I've never actually seen a picture of a clogged filter, but there is a lot of hype about them.

 

I went 5,000mi between oil changes and used non-synth 5W-30. When I pulled my motor (for unrelated reasons) the filters were completely clear of debris.

 

I had this problem for the other side; P0021, so my turbo wasn't at risk. My problem ended up being a stuck VVT mechanism. You can read about it here: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/help-request-avcs-related-problem-131462.html?t=131462

Please stop driving your car now. My turbo shit the bed yesterday. I took my car in to Subaru of Cherry Hill, right next to their US corporate headquarters, last week when the light first came on. They checked it out for $150, said there was no blockage, and asked me to bring it in next time that code pops up. It did, driving home from work. Turbo also popped.

 

I got the car around 50,000 miles off lease. I put around 30,000 on it. Oil changes every 3,000-4,000 miles (3,000 since the warning went out from SOA).

 

I now have a repair that I can't afford to make.

dmichaluk... you can pick up a used VF40 for $300-$400 in the classifieds... The swap isn't that bad, and it's easier to get the banjo filter without the turbo in the way.

Please stop driving your car now. My turbo shit the bed yesterday. I took my car in to Subaru of Cherry Hill, right next to their US corporate headquarters, last week when the light first came on. They checked it out for $150, said there was no blockage, and asked me to bring it in next time that code pops up. It did, driving home from work. Turbo also popped.

 

I got the car around 50,000 miles off lease. I put around 30,000 on it. Oil changes every 3,000-4,000 miles (3,000 since the warning went out from SOA).

 

I now have a repair that I can't afford to make.

 

That is a bad story but doesn't really help me. I can't just NOT drive the car. From what I am reading it isn't the turbo's fault. If I check the banjo filter (again presumably) and it is clear, I can't keep pussyfooting around town. Parts will break...that will happen. I can't afford it really either, but I am not going to live in paranoia forever.

Light came back on this morning and I turned toward the dealer immediately and let them have it for the day.

 

Funny thing is that the car has never ran bad and always stays smooth and has constant power whenever I need it...I was just a bit nervous because I only have so much warranty left.

 

They called me at noon and said that it was just an oil blockage and they recommend me changing my oil every 1,000 miles for the next 4,000 miles to clean it up and then no more than 3,000 miles or 3 months after that.

 

I will follow this procedure (buy three oil changes get one free anyway) and see if the light keeps coming on.

 

I have 30,000 miles and a year left so it won't hurt to give it a shot.

Ask them where the blockage was specifically and if/how they cleared it and/or isolated it.

 

I know it's a pain, but unless you get this information you may find yourself having to re-diagnose this whole thing if the oil changes don't fix it. You don't want to do all those oil changes and be back at square-one, right?

 

The only real spots for there to be a blockage are in spots that will cause starvation to critical parts of the engine, with the exception of the oil pipe right before it gets to the OCV. Because the banjo bolt filter keeps that line clear, it is not likely to be clogged.

Good luck, Greg.

Ask them where the blockage was specifically and if/how they cleared it and/or isolated it.

 

I know it's a pain, but unless you get this information you may find yourself having to re-diagnose this whole thing if the oil changes don't fix it. You don't want to do all those oil changes and be back at square-one, right?

 

The only real spots for there to be a blockage are in spots that will cause starvation to critical parts of the engine, with the exception of the oil pipe right before it gets to the OCV. Because the banjo bolt filter keeps that line clear, it is not likely to be clogged.

 

They don't know where the blockage is located. They ran a diagnostic and the code doesn't indicate that the OCV is a problem so I think they just went to the default "oil blockage...needs to change oil more often" saying.

 

I wonder if replacing these lines would make any sense if they are known to gunk up...or taking them apart and cleaning them out?

I would want to know what diagnostic they ran. If they are following the procedure for P0011 then they are running the engine and monitoring OCV duty cycle (%) and VVT advance. If they are seeing that your VVT advance is working when the OCV has been commanded to move it, then they will just tell you to change the oil.

 

However, your ECU is not seeing proper behavior or it wouldn't trip the code. Do you have the ability to datalog?

I would want to know what diagnostic they ran. If they are following the procedure for P0011 then they are running the engine and monitoring OCV duty cycle (%) and VVT advance. If they are seeing that your VVT advance is working when the OCV has been commanded to move it, then they will just tell you to change the oil.

 

However, your ECU is not seeing proper behavior or it wouldn't trip the code. Do you have the ability to datalog?

 

I did this last weekend...not sure if I logged the correct variables though. I can always do a few more logs if that helps. I see lots of data on OCV and VVT if that is what you were referring to. Thanks much for following up on this!

romraiderlog_20100320_175136.csv

So whatever became of this?

 

Enough time has gone by that would make this thread much more valuable.

I followed the dealers instructions and changed out the oil 4 x at 1,000 mile intervals, and then back to 3,000 mile intervals after that.

 

Everything has been fine. I am up to 40,000 miles now.

 

I have been holding off on any modifications until my warranty is up which is this year.

 

I have a downpipe (not installed) and will be getting a catback with an Infamous tune either late this year or early next...if the funds are still around.

 

So far so good.

Drew888 thanks for bringing this thread back up.

 

My 05 throw both codes a while back, mid Feb. A few days later the tranny began making lots of noise so I haven't driven it. I did a can of engine flush and changed the oil. When I get the tranny fixed. I'll drive it for a while and see what happens.

 

BTW, I also had my trust local Mechanic check out the OCV and remove the banjo filter, before the tranny went south.

Hay max, how did that turn out for you? i just got my engine rebuilt and got a camshaft code aswell. I have a FP oil line so dont think i need to worry about the turbo being starved; also have it running on wastegate pressure so hopefully its not running 100% and burn itself to death. Also im running 5w40 to make sure the oil dosent thin out too quickly so everything stays lubed.

Did you get the code fixed. Could be a bad OCV.

 

I have been watching your other threads, I dont remeber seeing this code.

 

My turbo finally began to whine and then whistle, when it whistled I replaced it, see my sig.

Up to about 48,000 miles now and out of warranty. Everything appears to be running fine and after we get moved (new job) and settled in I will be ready to install my waiting mods and ruin it all.