First time and Short Log

I hoped to make some sense out of my first log that I created using the AP.

I'm sure I should be eliminating some of the definitions in here but don't know which one to erase.

Only did midway to make sure that nothing is majorly wrong.

Then gonna go for a redline run.

 

The boost comes in smooth and it feels like there is nothing wrong with it but I want to hear it from the data logging guru's here.

Obviously, if it is too dangerous, I have to do something about it so.

 

Peak Boost should be 22spi with HTA68.

log_short.csv

I suggest staying out boost until you get a wideband O2 sensor. Your long term fuel trim is -10%, which probably means that you're about 10% leaner than your tuner had in mind when he turned your car. For example if the map calls for 11.0 you're at 12.1. That's enough for bad things to happen.

 

The stock O2 sensor is not accurate under boost, and does not read lower than 11.15 anyway, so it's useless for logging under boost. Works fine at idle and cruise, but that's all.

 

Also it looks like your car has learned to pull 2 degrees due to knock, which is a sign that the tune is not good.

 

I've been meaning to create a wiki page on how to select parameters for logging, I'll probably do that tonight. I'll post a link here if I do.

NSFW thanks for your input.

That's a lot of stuff to learn on one response.

 

I was kinda worried about the LTFT which had a negative value of -10%.

I'm a newb on this so please understand some of the assumptions I am going to make.

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3828/is_200609/ai_n17191947/

 

"Positive fuel trim percentages indicate that the powertrain control module (PCM) is attempting to richen the fuel mixture, to compensate for a perceived lean condition. Negative fuel trim percentages indicate the PCM is attempting to lean out the fuel mixture, to compensate for a perceived rich condition. STFT and LTFT percentages are the adjustments made by the PCM to maintain the 14.7:1 ratio."

 

This was from the article that was online and wanted to put it on a table here.

I have made it a BOLD where I am having a trouble with.

If the ecu is trying to LEAN out the fuel percentage because of a perceived rich condition, would it mean that the combustion chamber was in a RICH condition?

 

Yes, I do see that I have slight or rather a big issue of knock situation.

That means that I am probably knocking because of the lean condition right?

 

My DAM looks like it is 1 across the board but how could it be knocking?

(Keep in mind that I am new to this )

 

When you say stock O2 sensor does not read lower than 11.15 means 11.15 and higher numbers can be read, correct?

Is there any reason why we will need anything lower than 11.15 AFR.

 

Thank you for your time posting and I really appreciate your input!!

The first thing i think you need to address is the fuel trim issue..10% is a lot. Ideally, you would want less than 1% correction in the high end. It could be that the knock you are seeing may be a result of the leaning out that is occurring.

While in closed loop operation (mainly cruising and light throttle) the ecu is constantly monitoring the AFR and adjusting the fuel accordingly. It does this in 4 distinct air flow ranges. Depending on your tune, the upper range is about 60-70 g/sec...not high at all. When you got WOT, the ecu goes into open loop and completetly ignores what the stock o2 is saying and simply applies the correction that it learned in the highest air flow range (60-70 g/sec in this example) across the rest of the maf range.

 

This is a big problem because although you may be off in the 60 g/sec range by 10%, you may not be in the higher ranges. So the ecu is blindly making a 10% adjustment without having any idea what your high end afr's are. This is why i wideband is critical to seeing what is going on with your afrs when you go WOT.

 

For the most part..once you go into boost the stock o2 readings are useless. Too much pressure builds up in the up pipe (where the sensor is located) to give an accurate reading.

Btw...this is a great source of Suby tuning info in a very user friendly format.

 

http://web.njit.edu/~trb2/WRX/download/

Thanks spec B for your extreme details on my questions.

I'll read up on that PDF Files, it looks very interesting.

I have a flight to Hong Kong tomorrow so I should be able to read up on all of them since the flight is 16 hours....LOL

 

Now I know why people are buying wideband.

I guess I do have to purchase it and monitor it frequently.

Now for the wideband, this is something that you can plug in to the Rom Raider to have a true reading upon Positive Boost?

 

I can't say I GOT IT AND UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING YOU SAID because I would be lying.

But I'll educate myself with the precious information you gave me and give myself more wisdom.

 

Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it!

Have a safe trip to HK, hope it helps...that pdf contians 90% of what you need to know to understand your tune. The rest is from reading the forums and posts from guys like NSFW, who really understand the stuff.

 

RR works with the Innovate Lc1, LM1 and a AEM WB02's (there may be more). I run the LM-1 and love it, very user friendly and install was easy. You basically install the o2 sensor in your DP, and it plugs right into your laptop/RR recognizes it and you could log it in real time just like any other parameter..

More reading: How the knock control system works: http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic1840.html

 

How the Closed and open loop fueling works:

http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic1603.html

 

How boost control works (this one is a little more advanced):

http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic1814.html

Thanks Spec B, you read a lot of info!!

I guess I should also.

It would be nice to see ya at some meet someday.

 

I'll keep on reading up on the info and make myself wiser.

 

I did ask some other member here about combo of Rom Raider, 08+ Spec B, and using the Cobb AP2 wires and adapter.

Would that work to do a log on a Rom Raider?

Or do I need a tactrix cable??

I read that stuff over the last year...but considering you have at least a 12 hour flight, you probably could get through all of it!

 

I occasionally attend some of the meets..I am sure we will meet up. I am planning on getting the same turbo you are running very soon. What are your mods?

 

With a 07+ I am pretty sure you will need the tactrix 2.0 cable to log.

Great advice and good resources.

I read that stuff over the last year...but considering you have at least a 12 hour flight, you probably could get through all of it!

 

I occasionally attend some of the meets..I am sure we will meet up. I am planning on getting the same turbo you are running very soon. What are your mods?

 

With a 07+ I am pretty sure you will need the tactrix 2.0 cable to log.

 

Yea, definitely.

Knowledge is power and you have given me way more than anyone else would in a year! LOL

 

My Setup is:

Perrin ELH, DP, Mid's, Y, Cobb Can, AVO Intake, AVO FMIC, DW750, Warboro Pump, GRIMMSPEED EBCS, HTA68.

Very Basic Stage 3 but put down 306WHP/340QTW on Mustang Dyno (93oct).

 

But won't be boosting for a while until I get this thing sorted out for sure.

 

Would you happen to know the advantages of using the Rom Raider vs AP Logging?

Would AP Logging System lack definitions to see the health of your engine?

 

I am not a person that attends to a lot of meets either.

Just here and there to see what kind of crowd they have out there.

But yea some time we will meet

That sounds like a sweet setup!

 

I am sure the AP has enough parameters to check the health of the tune...i like using the tactrix and RR because RR interfaces with my WBO2 for logging and the tactrix cable lets me run learning views (LV). A learning view gives you a snapshot of your learned fuel trims DAM/IAM and learned knock correction. You could get all this info off of a log, but the LV is much more convenient.

I see, I guess Tactrix cable will be the next purchase.

I'm gonna have to do a little more research on the LV you are talking about.

 

Thanks!

This thread is information intense!

 

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I see, I guess Tactrix cable will be the next purchase.

I'm gonna have to do a little more research on the LV you are talking about.

 

LV = Learning View = this right here:

http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic2772.html

LV = Learning View = this right here:

http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic2772.html

 

Thanks!

Man I love this forum, so many knowledge!!

 

Now I have this Warm Idle Log that I have right now, if anyone can tell me if my fuel trim is funky......let me know.

I do suspect it is kinda funky but any case......

 

warm idle 10-08-09.csv

Basically that log just shows that your fuel trim at 3 g/s is 15%. 15% is a lot.

 

Either your MAF scaling or injector scaling or injector latencies are off. Or all three - it's hard to tell.

 

Can you copy the text from Learning View snapshot and post it here?

Do you have a wideband O2 sensor?

I wish I can get you all the information but this has been done by a log from AP.

To my understanding, they don't have the Learning View on these?

Do you mean short fuel trim?

Sorry for being a newb here.. I am learning little by little everyday.

Yeah..you need a tactrix to run a learning view, cannot do it from the cobb AP.

Basically that log just shows that your fuel trim at 3 g/s is 15%. 15% is a lot.

 

Either your MAF scaling or injector scaling or injector latencies are off. Or all three - it's hard to tell.

 

Can you copy the text from Learning View snapshot and post it here?

Do you have a wideband O2 sensor?

 

I'm thinking a mechanical problem. I really can't believe someone would tune his car like that with all that correction showing up. Something post turbo..vacuum leak

I'm thinking a mechanical problem. I really can't believe someone would tune his car like that with all that correction showing up. Something post turbo..vacuum leak

 

Last time I got a dyno tune, we checked to see if any leak was in the system and it turned out there was none.

The minute I got out of the shop the idle was lowering and bogging a little like i have stated earlier.

 

Would the 750cc injectors do anything like this?

 

I guess I need some second opinion about this situation?

Yeah..you need a tactrix to run a learning view, cannot do it from the cobb AP.

 

Time for me to get some of those Tactrix Cable!!!