Tire upgrades after purchase?

Since the rumors of limited braking, and just the general marginality of the stock tires, what tires would you replace them with? I have been looking around on Tire Rack, and for Ultra High Performance and High Performance all season tires. (was looking anyway, for tires for my current vehicles) I think I would probably go with the Bridgestone RE950 or PZero Nero M&S. 215/45-WR17. Not much selection in 225/40-17. Maybe 225/45-17, but that is getting wide for a 7" rim, and a taller sidewall. Ideally, I would actually get some 18" rims, BBS RGR ([url]http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/bbs/bbs.jsp[/url] They also have gold...), or Volk Racing Progressiv Spoke, or LE37T ([url]http://rayswheels.co.jp/indexe.html[/url]) Then I would put Bridgestone Potenza RE970s (225/40-YR18) on for the summer, and Bridgestone Blizzak LM22s (the only ones in stock size) on the stock rims for the winter. I think the car would be almost perfection on dedicated summer and winter tires, at least here in Iowa. ~145$/per tire for all *8* tires is expensive, on top of a new set of wheels. Almost $3400 total, at ~$502/wheel (bbs), and sales tax. With a set like that, one might as well throw a tire pressure monitoring setup on that, as well. I guess I have a lot to save up for, in addition to a down payment. Maybe the Volks would be a lot less expensive, but I doubt it. I like all three of those wheels, plus they are all forged rims. I didn't enjoy replacing a cast rim and tire on the Miata last year, when my wife hit an ice chunk. The tire I can understand, but the ASA LS5 rim was more mangled than the tire, and cracked in the center of the rim valley. This car is getting Bridgestone RE970s next year, too, now that I have dedicated snow tires for it. I'd love to put 16" Panasport wheels on it, but now I am getting off topic on my own thread... Maybe someday, with a Legacy and a truck, I can put the Miata away in the winter. What tire or wheel & tire upgrades do y'all have in mind?

Spring/Summer/Fall: Goodyear F1 G3-D3 Winter: Probably Blizzaks

I am intereted in the BF Goodrich KDWs. I think Tirerack refers to them as KDW-2s because they are the second gen. KDWs. Good wear, supposedly very good in the dry and excellent in the wet. As an added bonus, an aggressive tread pattern.

just FYI, BFG G-Force KDW and KDW-2 are two different tires, simultaneously offered. I think they are similar, if not the same carcass, with the original having a standard directional tread pattern, and the -2 having more agressive tread compound, with the "tribal-flame" tread pattern. just so there is no confusion.

Hmmmmmm..... I was on Tire Rack reading the reviews of two tires that were meantioned here. Everyone seemed to like the Goodyear F1 G3-D3 - they said it was an excellent tire, but not exactly meant to autocross with. The BFG G-Force KDW-2 sound like they are great, but excessively noisy - noisy to the point where people thought things were wrong with their front ends and suspensions. Are the tires on the stock Legacy that bad, where it is worth dropping $700+ down on new tires? Also, what is the stock tire size? - Mike

[quote name='godwhomismike']Hmmmmmm..... I was on Tire Rack reading the reviews of two tires that were meantioned here. Everyone seemed to like the Goodyear F1 G3-D3 - they said it was an excellent tire, but not exactly meant to autocross with. The BFG G-Force KDW-2 sound like they are great, but excessively noisy - noisy to the point where people thought things were wrong with their front ends and suspensions. Are the tires on the stock Legacy that bad, where it is worth dropping $700+ down on new tires? Also, what is the stock tire size? - Mike[/quote] 1. The Eagle F1 is a very nice tire. 2. No, the tires on the Legacy are fine, just a bit below the overall level of the car itself. I'm making the change simply because I have to get snows anyhow, and intend to put them on the stock rims, so the stock rubber will have to go. Kevin

I really don't know if the stock bridgestone Potenza RE92 tires are that bad, but everyone who has commented in this forum have not had great things to say. Some attribute the reported long 60-0 distance to the tires, and may very well be right. Stock size for the GT is 215/45-wr17. 2.5i is probably slightly narrower on a 16" rim. Someone posted the PDF of the legacy brochure in another thread that will have all that info.

[quote name='gtguy'] 1. The Eagle F1 is a very nice tire. 2. No, the tires on the Legacy are fine, just a bit below the overall level of the car itself. [/quote] Perfect reply. I had the Eagle F1 GS-D3's on my RS in the 215/45R17 size and they are an amazing tire, great grip, quiet and great wear. But honestly I've been pretty impressed with the low profile RE92's so far, I definitly won't be swapping them for the F1's until they are worn out, why waste the $600 :?: [img]http://www.subaruchallenge.com/Wills/re92poster.jpg[/img] :lol:

[quote name='Opie']I had the Eagle F1 GS-D3's on my RS in the 215/45R17 size and they are an amazing tire, great grip, quiet and great wear. But honestly I've been pretty impressed with the low profile RE92's so far, I definitly won't be swapping them for the F1's until they are worn out, why waste the $600 :?: [img]http://www.subaruchallenge.com/Wills/re92poster.jpg[/img] :lol:[/quote] I love that pic - pretty funny. Some people around here are making those tires sound like they'll throw you right off the road the first time it rains or you take a turn a little too fast. Glad to hear that they are good tires, just not up to par with an all out sports car. - Mike

The other thing worth noting is that the Z-rated RE92s are a different tire from the RE92 that we have come to know and dislike. But, I went through two winters with my AWD Legacy GT wagon on the old-school RE92s, and I didn't notice anything was wrong until I noticed that a Ford Taurus had better snow traction than I did. That was when I learned about dedicated snows. In the dry, the Z-rated RE92s are a pretty darned good tire, my foot/hands tell me. I wouldn't take ANY Z-rated tire in the snow, I don't care if the sidewall does say M+S. Kevin

I still don't like the Z RE92s. There's a boat-load of tread squirm. They still suck. ;)

Why all the talk on switching the tires. I have had no problems with these tires. They are Z rated and are a repreable name.

What about some Nitto NT 555 for summer tires..?

If you are going to keep the RE92s it is worth experimenting with tire pressures. The sidewalls are quite soft which gives a comfortable ride but somewhat lazy turn-in and limits cornering grip. Bumping up the pressure by 2-4 pounds helps. That being said, and the subject has been beaten to death (especially for those of us coming from WRXs), the tires are really no match for a solid summer tire. If handling performance is a priorty then consider investing in good tires right away. If you keep them, the RE92s will likely give you 2 years of use before they wear out, and they do wear quickly, but that is 2 years driving on mediocre tires that limit the capabilities of the car. Or you could pull 'em off your new car, sell them for a few bucks and use the cash for new rubber. My advice is to grit your teeth and spend the money. Tom

I think I saw them as stock equipment on a Toyota Corolla. That should tell you all you want to know about them.

[quote name='WRXTom']If you are going to keep the RE92s it is worth experimenting with tire pressures. The sidewalls are quite soft which gives a comfortable ride but somewhat lazy turn-in and limits cornering grip. Bumping up the pressure by 2-4 pounds helps. That being said, and the subject has been beaten to death (especially for those of us coming from WRXs), the tires are really no match for a solid summer tire. If handling performance is a priorty then consider investing in good tires right away. If you keep them, the RE92s will likely give you 2 years of use before they wear out, and they do wear quickly, but that is 2 years driving on mediocre tires that limit the capabilities of the car. Or you could pull 'em off your new car, sell them for a few bucks and use the cash for new rubber. My advice is to grit your teeth and spend the money. Tom[/quote] I generally run about 39F/37R on my CEC's and the previous Dunlop D60 H2's on my current '97 GT with stock 205/55R-16 size. It's a bit better than stock which feels really mushy, while these pressures (at least for the 16" size) felt much more secure. I know with the new 17" setup and my Toyo's, I will also be testing pressures above stock. Probably mid-high 30's. I looked at the situation like this: Considering I already have had a bad taste towards RE92's and any dusting of snow even as well as their wear rates, I had two choices: run then really hard til the snow flies and put on some better A/S rubber (as I've stated elsewhere, we just don't get quite enough days of snow to require dedicated snows), or just get credit for the stock tires and throw on tires of my choice. I went with option two and for the upgrade of around $200, I'm not complaining. I don't forsee any regrets. I chose the Toyo's for their combination of performance values and price. It was nearly tied with the Pirelli PZero Nero M&S for ability by ratings, but it was about $100 less for the set. I figured it's still got to be quite a bit better than the RE92's. :mrgreen:

I need to start thinking about my next summer tire. The Kuhmo MXs should make it to the end of the summer but perhaps not. The Legacy builds speed quickly and cornering speeds are, ummm, enthusiastic :) . The Kuhmos corner better than any other tire I have used but I wouldn't buy them again...too noisy. They were new to market with solid reviews so I gave them a try. Also, I need to buy winters. I had Pirelli Snowsport 210s on the WRX and they worked well. A friend of mine is a dealer for Pirelli. We get mucho snow here so dedicated summers and winters are the way to go. Tom

[quote]...or just get credit for the stock tires and throw on tires of my choice. [/quote] Will the dealer usually take back the stock tires (and install the new ones) at time of purchase and give you credit, or would a tire dealer do this? Jim

Well, it all depends on the dealer Jim, some will, some won't- mine would. Just have to ask. :)

The bad versions of the RE92 are the S and H rated ones. Actually, I thought my S rated ones were quite grippy, but I was a honduh kid who thought he was riding on F1 technology. :D They did slide and crashed my car, but it didn't help that I had them at 40psi and there was also black ice, which not even a snow tire can overcome. My second car with the H rated ones were a different story. Horrible right off the bat. Some customers were able to get them exchanged for the Michelins that were put on the higher end trim. Oh and believe it or not, the Turanza EL41 on my Accord are even worse. I was wondering, were any of you able to trade in these brand new tires and get some sort of discount on a new set?

Like I mentioned, I got credit for my tires. I got my desired tires for much cheaper than they could get them so I ordered my own and had them shipped to the dealer I am working with. They didn't have a problem with that. I got I think $50 credit/tire. Well worth me not having to think about RE92's and needing to replace them prior to winter rolling in.

Seth, that's a great idea. I didn't realize that dealerships would do that, but $50/tire sure helps swallowing the purchase of new tires. I'm surprised you didn't go for the Nero set though.

I went for the Toyo's, they were about $100 less, and from what I've read, they should be neck in neck. Is it really worth $100 at that point? It's a new tire, figured it was worth a whirl. Heh, someone has to try them out. :D Any way you shake it, they're better than stock RE92's. :P

[quote] Not much selection in 225/40-17. Maybe 225/45-17, but that is getting wide for a 7" rim [/quote] I have 225/70R15 as standard equipment on my Ford Ranger which has 6" rims.

[quote name='RangerMan'][quote] Not much selection in 225/40-17. Maybe 225/45-17, but that is getting wide for a 7" rim [/quote] I have 225/70R15 as standard equipment on my Ford Ranger which has 6" rims.[/quote] the trick there is the "70" in 225-70-R15. That means the sidewall is 70% of the width of the tread, 225mm. That means the sidewall is 157.5mm tall. Essentially, what I am trying to say, with a 70 series tires, especially for a light truck , you can mount it to a wider range of rim widths, because the sidewalls can accommodate it, by flexing inward or outward to meet the narrower, or wider wheel rim, plus they have a larger maximum width, with the "balloon effect" (the roundness) of the sidewall. A 40 series performance tire, that is the same 225mm wide, has only 90mm of sidewall, which doesn't flex inward nearly as much, and are more stable when the sidewall is vertical, at a 90degree angle to the tread, and a lot less rounded. It is much more sensitive to having the wheel width very close to the width of the tread blocks. BTW, having the wheel width wider than the treadblock width is usually not a great idea, and it'd look like a low-rider on whitewalls. Also, I have a 2000 Ranger, as well, and it will be getting ~235/70-R16 (or something similar) Bridgestone Dueller AT Revos on the stock 16x7" wheels this fall. But those are much different that the Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45-ZR16 summer tires that will go on the Miata's aftermarket 16x7 wheels it has on it, next spring.