Keep warping rotors, brake upgrade ideas?

My recipe for brake parts has always been OEM quality rotors (lately Centric Premium) and upgraded street pads (lately StopTech's). I like the price and braking capability of these, but I always seem to end up leaving deposits on the rotors that build up enough that I need to cut the rotors or replace them within 1-2 years.

 

Most recently, I cut the rotors and re-bedded the StopTech pads in July. I've got vibration back again.

 

So, I'm looking to find a better solution. One part I'm fairly settled on already is stepping up to the DBA T3 rotors. They seem to offer enough improvements over OEM-style blanks without jacking the price up too much.

 

http://knsbrakes.com/c/dba-t3

 

But the big question remaining is pads. It seems to me the goal is to better absorb and dissipate heat, so the pads don't leave uneven deposits on the rotors. So a higher end pad is needed.

 

My main contender right now is the EBC Yellowstuffs. Anecdotal reading leads me to think the Porterfield RS4's and Carbontech Bobcat's are maybe too close to the Hawk/Stoptech types.

 

Or, will the rotor choice be enough perhaps? I like good cold bite, but am willing to sacrifice that a bit for better longevity through my hard driving.

 

Let me know your thoughts on how best to tackle this...

I am having the same problem with my centrics/stoptechs.

 

One road tuning session, and they were toast.

These cars don't like having the rotors turned. I've tried turning 2 different sets of rotors and had bad results each time. Best thing to do, is just replace the rotors with a quailty brand like Centrics or DBA's.

What kind of driving are you doing that leaves pad deposits? I drive hard sometimes in NYC and I don't have vibration. It's all in how you finally come to a stop. If I know my brakes are hot, I make a conscious effort to avoid coming to a complete stop.

I do the same and apparently it doesn't matter.

 

Maybe despite buying the Centric "premium" rotors I got some shit ones, who knows.

 

Either way, going with DBA 4000 and still deciding on pads. Leaning towards EBC and don't want issues, so Yellow or Blue? Hmmmm

Dunno, but I use Hawk HPS and the car is my DD. No pad deposits ever for the last 50K or so miles... be careful going with something super aggressive. It may get really noisy.

I had repeated problems with pad deposit buildup on my 05 LGT wagon with 100% stock brakes. I had the rotors turned under warranty. That cleared off the deposits better than simply re-bedding, but it still didn't take long for the deposits to come back.

 

When it finally came time to replace the OEM pads I got Carbotech Bobcat pads and slotted OEM-style rotors (I forget the exact brand). All pad deposit problems ceased for good with that setup. The Bobcats worked very well in the LGT.

 

Worth noting: I'm currently running Bobcats in my STI and find them inferior to the OEM Brembo pads, but the OEM Brembo pads are really quite good, better than any aftermarket street pad I've tried. Nothing like the awful OEM LGT pads. I still recommend the Bobcats for the LGT.

I run DBA 4000XS with Hawk HPS Pads with no issues in ~12K Miles.

 

Not a lot of noise and good stopping power.

 

Edit - Looks like the T3 4000 is the same rotor as the XS just slotted only vs drilled and slotted, and appears cheaper - so that's not a bad choice.

centric premiums & hawk hps. use the full pedal travel when braking. If doing hard braking, try not to have car sit in same spot until cool (ie. stop sooner than the stop sign/light and creep forward).

Problem is the pads, the StopTech pads like to be used and used hard, they are not ideal for commuting daily drivers. If you're going to be a commuting daily driver who doesn't drive the car hard but likes a good performing pad, you'll have to fork over the money to upgrade with the Hawk HPS pads. Or downgrade to the Posiquiet pads, less bite, less dust, GREAT daily driving pad.

 

-Nick

Thanks for the feedback Nick. Thing is I DO drive the car hard, pretty much every time.

 

I decided to step up to the Wilwood 4-pots and their BP-20 pads, along with the BDA 4000 T3 rotors. I swear if this doesn't keep me problem free for a *while*....

Seems like a spendy upgrade rather than changing pads. A set of Hawk DCT-60/70 would hold up for whatever "hard" driving you do, though, they are nearly useless on the street.

I'm also at 100K hard miles and don't want to have any caliper issues. They should go nicely with the RE-11A's. What can I say, like being able to stick and stop. Plus I will hit the track eventually.

Being able to "stick and stop" is more a function of tires than brakes for a daily driver.

 

I have to agree with boxkita. Sounds like you're just throwing a lot of money at the problem.

The problem most likely stems from your initial bed in process. It is not the deposits left over time that matter so much. It is filling the microscopic cracks on the rotors (they are there brand new) with an even layer of brake dust during bed in.

 

My bed in procedure=

10 consecutive 60mph-10mph stops (hard on the pedal just before the ABS kick in). Dont stop completely, immediately turn around, no braking) and repeat 10 times.

 

Let brakes cool completely (I like to do this by driving free way speeds for 15 minutes, saves time and once again, I dont have to use the brakes).

 

Repeat step 1 all over again.

 

Repeat step 2 all over again.

 

Rotors should have a nice "blue" to them from the heat generated and a nice "gray" to them (even coat of brake dust).

 

Should not have the "warped" rotor shims from now on. If for some reason they do appear down the road, simply clean the rotors by hand with a scotch brite pad and rebed.

I appreciate the concern guys. I realize that by changing the pads, and likely also with the improved rotors, I would resolve the issue that I started this thread about.

 

I opted for the Wilwood kit after learning of its existence in the first place; I didn't realize I could get 4 pots for such a reasonable price.

 

This way I get better braking, get rid of the vibration (by merit of new rotors), and hopefully avoid future vibration thanks to better pads.

 

I think we're all on the same page and I'm not disagreeing with anything here; I really just wanted to sanity check myself, wasn't expecting anything unheard of.

 

m_sprank - that sounds a lot like the bedding procedure I always use. Wilwood has a specific procedure as well that is very similar to that.

 

1. Proceed with a series of 8-10 hard stops from 55-65 MPH down to 25 MPH allowing 20-30 seconds of cool down time between each stop.

 

2. Drive at a moderate cruising speed, with the least amount of brake contact possible, until most of the heat has dissipated from the brakes. Avoid sitting stopped with the brake pedal depressed to hold the car in place during this time. Park the vehicle and allow the brakes to cool to ambient air temperature.

The Stoptech pads are great performers for the $$ but we are seeing quite a few more brake judder issues than we see with other similar products.

 

Most cases of judder do have visible cues - either pad smearing or imprinting.

 

It can be very persistent and get quite obtrusive to normal driving.

 

If it happened more than twice w/ the same set of pads I would turn the rotors and switch pad brand and get something a bit hotter.

Stoptechs and Centric premiums should just not be sold together for daily use IMO... Warped my rotors, a friends, and i've several more post on this forum with that combo failing than all others combined. Hard to believe all are due to improper bedding IMO, i went to Hawk HPS and problem solved.

The rotors are not warped. Warped rotors is one of the biggest myths/misconceptions in braking. It all has to do with proper bedding and maintenance (pads can require bedding more than once). It is also far more common on LGT's than other Subies.

 

read on sir:

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths

Great info from great vendors. Thanks guys, keep up the good work!

listen to this guy^^^^

and jus my two cents

i been running hawk pads dba rotors drilled/slotted

and ss line's with blue brake fluid

never had any issues or complaints...

also running yokohama ad08's in the summer

conti- extreme winters

hope you figure it out tho

those wilwoods are sexy

You know guys......... these cars are getting miles/older....... make sure your calipers are not dragging. Not just ripped boots and rusted pistons but the slides themselves. I have been seeing a lot of lower slide pins seized or partially seized.

You know guys......... these cars are getting miles/older....... make sure your calipers are not dragging. Not just ripped boots and rusted pistons but the slides themselves. I have been seeing a lot of lower slide pins seized or partially seized.

That's part of my reasoning in going with new calipers after 100K hard miles.

 

I could have gotten rebuilt stock calipers for $90, but those can be hit or miss for introducing new problems.

I could have bought all new hardware my mine and refurbished them for probably over $100 (new pistons, seals, boots, pins, etc).

New OEM calipers are $224 each.

The Wilwoods are $150 each with a $250 mounting kit and allowed me to use a quality Wilwood set of pads for $86 vs $120 for the EBC Yellow in stock size.

 

The Wilwoods were worth the extra performance and peace of mind to me, especially considering I either needed to get them now or wait until this current brake replacement needed re-doing in 1-2 years.

3 years ago my brakes were dragging really bad, after changing pads, rotors and fluid, the problem still existed. Once I pulled the slide pins off to inspect it, I found that the bottom slide pin rubber tube was worn out, causing the pin to stick/freeze inside housing. Pulled the rubber tube off the pin, regreased, and haven't had a problem since. I make sure to lube the slide pins at each pad change.

3 years ago my brakes were dragging really bad, after changing pads, rotors and fluid, the problem still existed. Once I pulled the slide pins off to inspect it, I found that the bottom slide pin rubber tube was worn out, causing the pin to stick/freeze inside housing. Pulled the rubber tube off the pin, regreased, and haven't had a problem since. I make sure to lube the slide pins at each pad change.

 

The bottom ones get a lot more road crap/salt and what not. That makes them a maintenance item.

 

-Ken