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Engine full of water...


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This is a bit long-winded, but I want to explain the whole situation to avoid "you shouldn't have driven through water" comments.

 

Today I drove to school to study for a test tomorrow. On the way there, it was not raining, and there was no flooding. After a few hours in a room without an outside window, an announcement came overhead that warned that local streets might close soon due to flooding.

 

I ran to my car and started driving slowly, carefully avoiding any areas where I could not see the pavement. I had to make several u-turns, and eventually ended up on a street that was becoming increasingly flooded, with no turn-offs and lots of cars behind me. At a 4-way intersection, straight and right were blocked off by police cars, and left had water that looked to be quite deep. Despite this a cop was waving me through.

 

I stopped and starting looking to see if I could u-turn again, or back-up, but could not due to other cars. The officer directing traffic angrily motioned for me to continue. I did not move, and he appeared more annoyed. Hoping that he knew something I didn't, I went for it.

 

My car stalled after hitting a wave of water that was between 2 1/2 and 3 ft high. Luckily, a truck was behind me and pushed me to where the water was only on the sides of the road.

 

I got towed to my buddie's shop, and unfortunately had to leave to resumed studying. When they pulled the plugs water came pouring out of all 4 cylinders.

 

My questions are:

 

1. Will the engine for sure be replaced?

 

2. I'm assuming the valves are bent, but will the heads be salvageable?

 

3. Do I need to worry about water having gotten in the transmission through the dipstick?

 

4. What else might have been damaged? (I'm thinking turbo but not sure)

 

5. If I had an AEM intake, would that affect the insurance process?

 

Thanks in advance.

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As you already know, water is not compressible, it got into your cylinders and from there on what kind of damage you have and the extent is to be determined. Bent con rods for starters.

Comprehensive loss under your insurance company. They might opt to replace the whole engine with a used one with comparable miles, depending on the extent of damage. As to the intake, there is no black and white answer.

Yes, trans should be checked for evidence of water contamination.

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As you already know, water is not compressible, it got into your cylinders and from there on what kind of damage you have and the extent is to be determined. Bent con rods for starters.

Comprehensive loss under your insurance company. They might opt to replace the whole engine with a used one with comparable miles, depending on the extent of damage. As to the intake, there is no black and white answer.

Yes, trans should be checked for evidence of water contamination.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

When the adjuster comes by, the intake will not be on the car, so do you think that's enough to avoid any issues?

 

I will get pics up once this test is over. Apparently my buddy took a video of water literally pouring out of the spark plug holes.

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might get lucky. Pull the plugs, spin the motor to clear water and try to start it.

 

Change oil if it runs.

 

There is a reasonable chance, if you didn't attempt to restart the motor, it stalled out before major damage was done.

 

I'm actually hoping that they replace the engine, since there is risk of corrosion and future issues with water having sat in it.

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It did just happen, but I wouldn't think that draining from the spark plug holes would get all the water out. Not sure on that, but I would worry about future problems.

 

It will normally blow out the spark plug holes. Fire it up. If oil has water in it, replace before.

 

A few hours of water isn't what does the damage.

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as mentioned may have bent a rod, or you may be okay. Years ago my Dad drove his toyota pickup through a river and was deeper than he thought and sucked water in through intake box. pulled plugs got water out, changed oil and kept driving it.

 

Hope same goes for you. If not i may have a good STI shortblock for sale here in a few days. Did compression test on it and all is well, so i will part it out shortly.

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It will normally blow out the spark plug holes. Fire it up. If oil has water in it, replace before.

 

A few hours of water isn't what does the damage.

 

Yeah, he sent me another picture he took earlier that shows water at the level of the top of the throttle body hose. Dirty, muddy water. I hope you're right, we'll see when they get a little further into it tomorrow.

 

as mentioned may have bent a rod, or you may be okay. Years ago my Dad drove his toyota pickup through a river and was deeper than he thought and sucked water in through intake box. pulled plugs got water out, changed oil and kept driving it.

 

Hope same goes for you. If not i may have a good STI shortblock for sale here in a few days. Did compression test on it and all is well, so i will part it out shortly.

 

It would certainly be easier if things ended up like your Dad's truck.

 

I will let you know if I end up going with a shortblock, thanks.

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Man, what a mess out there. I go to Boulder and Estes Park at least twice a year to go rock climbing but haven't been out there since April. I pray for all of you out there that everything turns out OK.

 

Make sure that everything you can drain of water is drained (vacuum the intake with shop vac, vacuum the exhaust manifolds or remove them and drain them, compressed air through the down pipe, drain all the oil and filter and replace). Unplug all of the electrical system plugs you can get to and spray both halves lightly with WD-40 as this will displace water and get rid of a possible short across pins. Plug them all back in. Remove cam gear covers and inspect the belt to make sure it didn't slip or tear. Remove the plugs and turn the engine over by hand to make sure it will turn over and line up the timing marks to make sure the belt is OK. Check transmission fluid too and if it's full, drain it and replace the fluid.

 

Leave the plugs out of the engine, remove the fuel pump fuse or unplug the pump, and spin it over just for a couple of seconds AFTER draining and replacing the oil. Listen closely to it and see if you hear anything out of the ordinary. It should spin over quite freely with the plugs out. If it doesn't spin over or you hear a lot of noise, then it's probably trashed (possible bent rods or valves or both) and will unfortunately have to be replaced or rebuilt if possible. If no noise and spins over OK, you most likely will see some oily water squirt out of the holes but that's what you want. If it sounds OK and once it has been spun over several short times for a minute or so total, squirt some oil (NOT WD40) in the cylinders and put the old plugs back in it and spin it some more WITHOUT the coils on it.

 

After about another minute or two of spinning it over in about 15-20 second bursts, IF everything sounds and feels OK, then pull the plugs, and spin it some more. After you've spun the engine over and hopefully, it sounds OK, THEN put a new set of plugs in it, install the coils (check the plugs that go into the coils and dry them) and reinsert the fuel pump fuse and see if it starts. If it will start, only run it for a minute listening closely and observing the idle and any shaking, and shut it off.

 

If it will start, most likely you'll have a CEL and a plethora of codes. Read the codes carefully and investigate each one. You may see MAP, MAF, O2, Knock sensor, throttle position, and could be others.

 

If it seems to run OK, run it for several minutes for a minute at a time shutting it off in between. Check the oil each time looking for milky whitish brown, and observe the muffler tips to see if anything unusual (most likely you'll get some water out of there too but you're looking for blue smoke or heavy white smoke) is coming out the exhaust.

 

Listen closely to the turbo with a stethoscope and see if it makes any noise. If it does, most likely it's trashed but don't boost it. Shut the car off and remove it immediately and inspect it and if it's bad, then you'll need to replace it. If the turbo is quiet, STILL be suspect of it and very gently increase the rpm to boost speed (2500-2700 rpm and do this AFTER you've done the above) to see if it pulls. Only do this for a second and if it does feel and sound OK, then do it several more times very gently.

 

If all of the above seems to check out, change the oil again and drive it very slowly around the parking lot and see how it feels. If it feels OK, go around the block and then come back and check the oil again. Drive it about 100 miles and change it again and if all above is OK, it should be good to go.

 

I've seen several engines fill with water like this and as long as they just quit and were not attempted to start again, they usually can be brought back. I hope for you that yours is one of them.

 

Good luck and CO is in the prayers. :)

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Man, what a mess out there. I go to Boulder and Estes Park at least twice a year to go rock climbing but haven't been out there since April. I pray for all of you out there that everything turns out OK.

 

Make sure that everything you can drain of water is drained (vacuum the intake with shop vac, vacuum the exhaust manifolds or remove them and drain them, compressed air through the down pipe, drain all the oil and filter and replace). Unplug all of the electrical system plugs you can get to and spray both halves lightly with WD-40 as this will displace water and get rid of a possible short across pins. Plug them all back in. Remove cam gear covers and inspect the belt to make sure it didn't slip or tear. Remove the plugs and turn the engine over by hand to make sure it will turn over and line up the timing marks to make sure the belt is OK. Check transmission fluid too and if it's full, drain it and replace the fluid.

 

Leave the plugs out of the engine, remove the fuel pump fuse or unplug the pump, and spin it over just for a couple of seconds AFTER draining and replacing the oil. Listen closely to it and see if you hear anything out of the ordinary. It should spin over quite freely with the plugs out. If it doesn't spin over or you hear a lot of noise, then it's probably trashed (possible bent rods or valves or both) and will unfortunately have to be replaced or rebuilt if possible. If no noise and spins over OK, you most likely will see some oily water squirt out of the holes but that's what you want. If it sounds OK and once it has been spun over several short times for a minute or so total, squirt some oil (NOT WD40) in the cylinders and put the old plugs back in it and spin it some more WITHOUT the coils on it.

 

After about another minute or two of spinning it over in about 15-20 second bursts, IF everything sounds and feels OK, then pull the plugs, and spin it some more. After you've spun the engine over and hopefully, it sounds OK, THEN put a new set of plugs in it, install the coils (check the plugs that go into the coils and dry them) and reinsert the fuel pump fuse and see if it starts. If it will start, only run it for a minute listening closely and observing the idle and any shaking, and shut it off.

 

If it will start, most likely you'll have a CEL and a plethora of codes. Read the codes carefully and investigate each one. You may see MAP, MAF, O2, Knock sensor, throttle position, and could be others.

 

If it seems to run OK, run it for several minutes for a minute at a time shutting it off in between. Check the oil each time looking for milky whitish brown, and observe the muffler tips to see if anything unusual (most likely you'll get some water out of there too but you're looking for blue smoke or heavy white smoke) is coming out the exhaust.

 

Listen closely to the turbo with a stethoscope and see if it makes any noise. If it does, most likely it's trashed but don't boost it. Shut the car off and remove it immediately and inspect it and if it's bad, then you'll need to replace it. If the turbo is quiet, STILL be suspect of it and very gently increase the rpm to boost speed (2500-2700 rpm and do this AFTER you've done the above) to see if it pulls. Only do this for a second and if it does feel and sound OK, then do it several more times very gently.

 

If all of the above seems to check out, change the oil again and drive it very slowly around the parking lot and see how it feels. If it feels OK, go around the block and then come back and check the oil again. Drive it about 100 miles and change it again and if all above is OK, it should be good to go.

 

I've seen several engines fill with water like this and as long as they just quit and were not attempted to start again, they usually can be brought back. I hope for you that yours is one of them.

 

Good luck and CO is in the prayers. :)

 

Thanks very much for your concern and extremely detailed advice. I will keep everyone posted. Unfortunately, because of school I will not have time to do most of the work, so my buddy will have to get things done before the adjuster shows up.

 

Yeah it's pretty wild out here. A couple miles from school there were cars stuck in 6ft of water on I-70. Luckily I didn't make it that far.

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At this point, my main concern is this:

 

5. If I had an AEM intake, would that affect the insurance process?

 

If anyone has experience or thoughts on this, I'd really appreciate it. The possibility of insurance not covering this is making me a little nervous.

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Can you change it back to the stock intake? It only takes a minute to do. TI hose won't even be noticed if you have that.

 

Honestly, I don't believe that will make a difference. 3' of water is 3' of water irregardless of what damn intake you have on it and if the engine was completely filled, it would have filled with the stock or the AEM.

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I would definitely check with the insurance company what they have to say about the cop waving you through. Essentially you were forced to put your vehicle in danger.

 

Water in the oil is in general not a major problem providing it's reasonably clean. It's not good, but it won't destroy the engine right away. The engine block don't care at all about it. Brass parts may get bad if exposed too long, but if it's handled reasonably soon it's more cosmetic than dangerous.

 

As for the engine - to clear it from water:

 

  • Replace oil with some cheap oil.
  • Remove spark plugs and coils from the engine - clean the coils and put them to dry at a suitable place that isn't too warm, but still warmer than room temp.
  • Squirt some oil into the cylinders.
  • Crank it with fuel pump fuse pulled and spark plugs removed so it breathes out all humidity and pumps through all oil thoroughly. Listen for unusual noises during that time.
  • Run a compression test. If all cylinders are the same the engine should be good. If not you can stop and look for a new block now.

Assuming that the compression figures are OK:

 

 

  • Replace the oil and filter with some more cheap oil, and run that new batch through the engine by cranking without plugs.
  • Replace oil and filter again with yet another batch of cheap oil, add spark plugs, coils and fuel pump fuse. Try to start, but don't rev the engine if it starts, just let it idle, listen for unusual noises. If possible also connect an oil pressure gauge and check that the oil pressure is within specs.
    If the engine is good at idle all the way from cold to warmed up and the oil pressure is good both at cold and warm idle it's OK at that stage.
  • Get prepared to have someone able to tow you if there's a dead stop or problem during the following phases.
  • Replace oil and filter again, this time with standard oil (I would prefer synthetics), start engine, make a test drive with light load around the block to see that everything works as it should. Drive with light load until the engine has been fully warmed up. If at any point there's some problem - like a bad sound or CEL showing up you shall stop and investigate.
  • Increase load on engine to "normal" highway driving and continue monitoring. Do this during light traffic conditions.
  • Do some WOT runs with logging to see that nothing unusual happens.

One good thing - you run E85, which means that water in fuel is less of a concern.

 

 

If you have the CEL lit, begin with clearing codes before you try to start the engine. If it comes on again it should only show valid codes, in which case you need to fix them. You should have a code reader available so you can check what code you get and decide if it's something to be concerned about or not.

 

 

Codes available here: http://www.bedug.com/pics/Subaru/obdcodes_Subaru.txt

 

 

 

Cheap oil - just about whatever cheapest oil you can find with the correct viscosity and specifications for the engine.

 

 

Use fresh spark plugs when you try to start the engine.

 

 

It is possible that you may have blown a head gasket so keep an eye on the coolant level and other signs for a dead head gasket - like white smoke from the exhaust even though you have heated up the engine several times. White smoke during the first or second start shouldn't be a problem.

 

 

 

Notice when cranking that you shall only crank for maximum 10 to 20 seconds at a time and pause at least a minute between to avoid overheating the starter. And use a battery charger all the time.

 

 

If you have the opportunity to data log your vehicle using a laptop it's a good idea - it can help in diagnosing odd problems. E.g. if an O2 sensor is behaving bad.

 

 

 

Expenses if all goes well - a few gallons of oil, a few oil filters, a set of spark plugs and a lot of work with some busted knuckles.

 

 

Good Luck!

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You can get your car insured with modifications, insurance company must know about them prior to the loss however. I have worked at a few body shops and a few heavily modified cars have come through and had broken wheels bent exhausts front end collisions with damages to modified parts..it will add to the loss the insurance takes and in turn your policy and deductible will be higher.
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Thank you all for the info. I will be waiting a bit to do anything, both because I'm busy and because the adjuster needs to take a look. Also, no banjo bolt, I have the IP&T in-line filter.

 

As far as putting on the stock intake, I just want to make sure I avoid anything that could be considered fraudulent. I think I'll just take the whole intake setup off and move it far away from the car. Hopefully they won't ask because I'm very bad at lying.

 

I agree though, that I think I would have been sunk regardless of the type of intake I had on.

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You can get your car insured with modifications, insurance company must know about them prior to the loss however. I have worked at a few body shops and a few heavily modified cars have come through and had broken wheels bent exhausts front end collisions with damages to modified parts..it will add to the loss the insurance takes and in turn your policy and deductible will be higher.

 

My policy covers up to $5000 in aftermarket parts, which I hopefully won't have to use.

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Sucks man! I went through this years ago with an Integra. I would consider having your oil pump replaced. When I hydrolocked my motor I spent the money for a new valvetrain, rod, etc only to have my oil pump seize 15k miles later. It may not be a concern with the EJ, I am not sure. Good luck!
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I'm new to the subaru's but I'd assume the transmission would have a vent tube on it somewhere and most likely the rear diff will also have one. If so, you would have definitely gotten water in them as well. Your going to want to change that fluid out as well.
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Thank you all for the info. I will be waiting a bit to do anything, both because I'm busy and because the adjuster needs to take a look. Also, no banjo bolt, I have the IP&T in-line filter.

 

I would say that waiting can cause you to really need a new engine because then the water will have time to cause serious corrosion everywhere.

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