Timing belt kits & water pumps

As my water pump is going out on my 2.2L, I'm going to be replacing the timing belt, etc and I had a couple questions.

 

1. I'm planning on replacing: the belt, (2x) smooth idlers, 1 sprocket idler, tensioner, water pump, (2x) cam seals, crank seal, thermostat. Upper and lower rad hoses are new, as is the the coolant. Tho I might just replace the coolant too. Anything else I should replace while I'm in there?

 

2a. How are the gates/dayco timing belt kits? I've contacted their customer support and both warranty their kits for the complete service interval and would pay any repair costs.

 

2b. Dayco makes two belts, the 95172 made out of chloroprene compound, and 95254 for "hi-temp" applications, made out of highly saturated acryl nitrile compound. Fancy chemical names confuse me, does anyone know what that means?

 

3. I heard gates water pumps for this application are garbage. How are the A1 cardone remanufactured ones? I know their axles are good.

 

4. Anyone use the gates cam/crank oil seals before?

 

Thanks

Looks like the Duralast timing belts are made by Dayco. The Duralast kits have the same model number as the Dayco kits as well.

 

Also, I figured out what "highly saturated acryl nitrile compound" aka HSN is. The gates belt is HSN as well.

 

Do I need to replace the integral actuator? What does that part do?

I only used gates timing belts and components, and OEM water pump and water pump gasket. Every time I do a timing belt EVERYTHING gets replaced!

We use the Gates kits with Subaru water pumps and water pump gasket. The Gates stuff is good quality minus the WP and gasket. We would definitely recommend doing all the idlers and tensioner etc. Better be safe than sorry.

 

-Jake

 

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one thing you missed on your list of things to do, the cam cap o-rings.

 

there are 2 of them, one on the driver side front and one on the passenger side rear. get them from the dealer or an on line dealer .

 

i get my timing kits form ''theimportexperts'' on ebay. they are good quality and well priced. belt and idlers = ~90$, w/ water pump =~130$, plus shipping.

 

i would get the seals and wp gastek form the dealer = ~30$ wholesale, local or on line.

 

the warranty on the dayco and gates kits is impressive. but the usual failure point after a timing belt job is the component that was NOT replaced. asking good quality parts to go 60k miles is not a stretch. asking them to go 120k or 180k is a lot to expect.

Before I found any forums I ordered the Gates timing belt kit as well as a Gates water pump. Timing belt kit was quite nice... water pump, not so much. Had some fitment issues. Once I got past that it has worked fine from what I can tell but will definitely not go with the Gates pump again.

 

I did also order the Gates crank and cam seals. They work fine so far, no leaks. Only a few thousand miles or so though.

Sounds like the gates belt and gates component kit is the way to go. It's $120 for the Gates kit (which includes the belt) on amazon right now, so hard to complain with that

 

Is there a difference between the cam seals and cam cap o-rings?

 

"theimportexports" are selling the Paraut WP and calling it the OE supplier. Looks like I'll get the Paraut WP then...

 

Anyone know about the integral actuator assembly? The gates kit doesn't include it, but one of the duralast kits does.

 

Thanks!

OE and OEM are not the same. OE just means it meets the specifications of the OEM part, but not always the same quality.

So, I did a little further digging, the actuator part of the tensioner has never been replaced...Only the pulley and bearing. Do these go out/should they be replaced with the timing belt job? It adds about $70-130 in parts

Yes you need to replace the tensioner, it is often the cause of a jumped timing belt

Absolutely replace the tensioner. Why risk trashing a motor over the extra cost.

 

I used Duralast belts when I rebuilt the engine on my wife's 99 outback and we haven't had a bit of trouble.

Okay, one more question... do I have to find TDC on the compression stroke of the #1 cylinder like the haynes manual says, or can I just line up the marks on the cams and crank?

You DO NOT use tdc on Subaru's for tb replace.

You use the hash(line) marks.

Check the manuals you previously downloaded., or a search here for tb belt replace will give you the info you need.

 

O.

just line up the marks on the cams and crank, BUT make sure you use the correct marks. use the alaignment HASH MARKS not the arrows. never the arrows. if you don't know ask. doing it wrong is expensive.

 

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg240/johnceggleston/timingbeltdiagram.gif

Cool, that's what I had thought, I just wanted to 100% CERTAIN that was correct before taking the belt off.

 

So if I took the belt off, I could spin each pulley around as many times as I wanted and as long as I lined up the alignment marks (well, notches), I would be OK?

 

Thanks!

The proper way to do it is take the timing cover off, line up the marks so that it is all where it should be and then start to disassemble. One of the cams will spin as it is under tension, the other will be just fine. You can only turn the cams in certain directions and can possibly cause damage if you are not careful.

 

-Jake

 

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You don't want to do a lot of turning(nor should you have to) once the belt is off.

If you do, make sure you turn it two complete revolutions to get the right cylinder in position.

 

Once the belt is installed, do a few turns by hand to make sure there is no undue resistance.

 

O.

There was a bit of resistance when I turned the crank pulley when I did a timing belt replacement recently. subikid mentioned that you can pull out the spark plugs on the drivers side and then there isn't any compression, making it easy to turn the whole shebang. However, he was specifically referring to a 2.5 engine. I would guess that it would be the same on a 2.2, but I don't know enough about engines to say for sure.

You don't want to do a lot of turning(nor should you have to) once the belt is off.

If you do, make sure you turn it two complete revolutions to get the right cylinder in position.

 

O.

 

 

Just so that nobody gets confused by this ^ statement; The "right cylinder" is in "position" on every turn of the crankshaft. It can't do anything but be "in position". There isn't an exhaust stroke or intake stroke, just a stroke. It is only when you attach the timing belt that links the openeing or closing valves to the repeating cycle of the crank do you get a 4 cylce engine. Other wise it's just two cycles, up and down or left and right in the case of our Subies.

 

Tom

^ thanks for making it plain.

 

O.

you hope there is resistance when turning the engine over by hand. if none then there is no compression. if you turn it slow enough you can here the compression escape when the exhaust valves open. this is true for all engines.

 

the danger is turning the engine over on an interference engine with the valves open. this will cause damage. but if you start with the crank in the correct position, there is no way to have valve damage in an ej22 or an ej25 SOHC. (DOHCs are different.)

 

with the crank in the correct position, and the belt off, you can turn the driver side cam either direction to its relaxed position, all valves closed. (you can turn either cam either direction as many times as you want as long as the crank is in the correct position.)

 

once the cams are both at rest, you can turn the crank either direction with no worries. again, this is the ej series SOHC.

 

but you can't turn both the crank and cams at the same time. besides , why would you want or need to. and of course before you start to install the new belt you must first return the crank and then the cams to there correct alignment positions.

 

DOHC engines, 96 - 99 at least , run the risk of having the intake valves bump into the exhaust valves and causing damage. so when turning cams on them, you need not only the crank in the correct timing position BUT the other cam on that side of the engine in the relaxed position, all valves closed.

 

this may be confusing for some so the best rule of thumb is to align everything (if the timing has jumped the crank is more important), remove the belt and don't turn the crank. and only turn cams enough to align them for the belt install.

Hi, I am doing this same work to my EJ22 and I was wondering... I seem to be finding two different types of integral actuators. Do they both work? Is one design newer or something? Or do I actually need both.. I'm confused.

 

I've seen this style: http://www244.pair.com/oldguys/T60400a.jpg

 

and this style: http://cnsautoparts-ebay.codepremise.com/attachments/0001/1160/460-7253-2.jpg

First one is the old style, second one is the new style. I think they were switched for the 1998 model year, but maybe the switch was in mid 1997. My car was built in 4/97 and used the old style.