Bolt up turbocharger upgrade - Vol-2

So what is the recommended oil supply setup now that the Infamous kit is out of production?

 

Brian suggested making custom setup from a sandwich on the oil filter along with a 40 micron inline filter. Other people have seen both successes and failure on standard aftermarket line kits. The former would extend the oil filter lower than I'm comfortable with (I run RX8 length filters), but I also dont want a bum aftermarket kit that'll starve the turbo of oil.

 

Also is there a recommended kit for replacing the coolant/oil return lines? OEM is spendy.

 

Edit: And holy crap Brian ships them fast... 26 hours from order to my door, with him having to assemble it.

Edited May 24, 2016 by utc_pyro

Maybe the manufacturer of the turbo should be supplying any necessary accessories for the turbos.

 

If it were my car, I would not be pulling oil from a sandwich plate adapter to feed the turbo.

 

FYI gents, I have all the OEM turbos that come through my shop rebuilt here: Pure Turbos. They require OEM oil supply (nothing aftermarket) and offer a 12month 12000 mile warranty. I have had to use the warranty once in the past 4 years. They turned the turbo around in 24 hours with no questions asked.

 

They also build me custom turbos in OEM housings. Pricing is INSANE for what you get.

 

Just installed a rebuilt (by Pure turbos) VF40 yesterday. Customer picked it up today. I sold the turbo to my customer for $525. I did not lose money on the sale.

Edited May 25, 2016 by m sprank

Maybe the manufacturer of the turbo should be supplying any necessary accessories for the turbos.

 

If it were my car, I would not be pulling oil from a sandwich plate adapter to feed the turbo.

 

FYI gents, I have all the OEM turbos that come through my shop rebuilt here: Pure Turbos. They require OEM oil supply (nothing aftermarket) and offer a 12month 12000 mile warranty. I have had to use the warranty once in the past 4 years. They turned the turbo around in 24 hours with no questions asked.

 

They also build me custom turbos in OEM housings. Pricing is INSANE for what you get.

 

Just installed a rebuilt (by Pure turbos) VF40 yesterday. Customer picked it up today. I sold the turbo to my customer for $525. I did not lose money on the sale.

 

I send you lots of business and you refer business elsewhere. That's dirty man.

 

Btw might I remind you I have seen more vf40 turbos than what you can emagine. 1% of cores were rebuildable. There is a problem with the oil supply. Now you telling people not to do the oil lines, you are setting them up for failure for sure.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Bryan@BNR

I find myself in awe when I see a business believe that you can control the market or that your product is better than some other manufacturers out there. Precision, Garrett, AVO, ect. Are you out of your mind. I'm glad to see that their are vendor's that honor there warranty and infamous performance should continue to make there oil kit with a 40 micron filter and the option of installing it from the top or the sandwich Plate. Edited May 25, 2016 by HellShadow70

Also, 1% of VF40 cores were rebuildable? BNR used to buy (or do core rebate, I can't remember) VF40 cores, no? Are you saying that only 1 in a 100 was usable? That sounds ridiculous.

Bryan used the housings to fit an MHI CHRA into, the cores went on the scrap pile AFAIK. Bryan is also not the only one to insist on a replacement oil line to support warranty claims. FP will likewise not warranty turbos that are starved of oil.

Not sure what all the "oiling issue" talk is. There is an issue, it's pretty straight forward--banjo bolt screens get clogged over time with improper maintenance. Remove of the banjo screen(s) and addition of another inline filter should solve the issue.

 

Also, 1% of VF40 cores were rebuildable? BNR used to buy (or do core rebate, I can't remember) VF40 cores, no? Are you saying that only 1 in a 100 was usable? That sounds ridiculous.

 

Bryan at BNR has treated me well. I also have run a BNR 16g for several thousand miles with no issues. But the warranty truly seems lacking, especially when people invest good money to follow requirements (oil line kit and OCVs to the tune of ~$400 or so?) and then get denied.

 

Like I got denied , when I bought the turbo last year i was told by Brian that in order for the turbo to be under warranty I needed to purchase the oil line kit and Oct and now that the shit broke this year it's no, no, it's not covered. How is that?

Not sure what all the "oiling issue" talk is. There is an issue, it's pretty straight forward--banjo bolt screens get clogged over time with improper maintenance. Remove of the banjo screen(s) and addition of another inline filter should solve the issue.

 

Also, 1% of VF40 cores were rebuildable? BNR used to buy (or do core rebate, I can't remember) VF40 cores, no? Are you saying that only 1 in a 100 was usable? That sounds ridiculous.

 

Bryan at BNR has treated me well. I also have run a BNR 16g for several thousand miles with no issues. But the warranty truly seems lacking, especially when people invest good money to follow requirements (oil line kit and OCVs to the tune of ~$400 or so?) and then get denied.

 

Alright so you pull the screens that are plugged up with engine fragments and run with out them. Then you contaminate the bearings in the turbo and it dies a miserable death .

Like I got denied , when I bought the turbo last year i was told by Brian that in order for the turbo to be under warranty I needed to purchase the oil line kit and Oct and now that the shit broke this year it's no, no, it's not covered. How is that?

 

 

Oil starvation isn't covered under warranty. No turbo shop will cover starvation under warranty. It wasn't the turbos fault your engine didn't supply the turbo with adequate oil volume. The one reason why I would run a sandwich plate is to get the turbocharger oil supply from a more reliable location. The cylinder head oil ports are restricted, then the main oil line to the OCV is restricted. The turbocharger shares oil supply with AVCS and it has 3 built in restrictions in that line. If the OCV malfunctions, the oil pressure plummets in the oil line. Just too many easy ways for the turbo to lose its oil pressure even with upgraded oil lines.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Bryan@BNR

I have done over 1300 Legacy turbochargers since 2009. These are all my returns in 7 years. ALL of them starved to death. If you refuse to accept this I will gladly find your bearings that came from your unit and give you some pictures and you can send them to any other turbocharger repair shop you want to and get their .02.

 

I am not here to scam you. If the turbocharger fails and its my fault, I will take care of it. There have been many times that I have fixed turbos that were clearly starved and didn't charge them a dime because they didn't have money.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Bryan@BNR

Bryan used the housings to fit an MHI CHRA into, the cores went on the scrap pile AFAIK. Bryan is also not the only one to insist on a replacement oil line to support warranty claims. FP will likewise not warranty turbos that are starved of oil.

 

So why make someone spend $400.00 to feed a turbo and as you just stated and i quote, Bryan is also not the only one to insist on a replacement oil line to support warranty claims. key word support. I'm Done Here.

Edited May 25, 2016 by HellShadow70

The cylinder head oil ports are restricted, then the main oil line to the OCV is restricted. The turbocharger shares oil supply with AVCS and it has 3 built in restrictions in that line. If the OCV malfunctions, the oil pressure plummets in the oil line.

 

Disclaimer: I'm just trying to design an oil supply for my new BNR turbo, not taking sides on anything. I just really don't want my oil filter any lower.

 

So obviously there is a lot of restrictions in the stock line. Forced performance has a great wright up about it here actually. So I'd actually rather remove the whole damn thing and replace it with a kit like this IGA one: http://cdn3.volusion.com/dtepk.qqepe/v/vspfiles/photos/IAG-ENG-2070-2.jpg?1433432597

 

 

Then install a filter like the forced performance one right at the turbo:

 

The FSM is kind of vague, but based on the part number they offer with the oil line kit the banjo at the OCV actually has a restrictor on it. Thus if the thing fails open the restrictor should keep the flow down enough not starve the turbo. I havent taken a fluids class in 9 years now so who freken knows, maybe one of the friendly ME's on here could chime in.

 

BUT there is actually another option... One that's really easy because the whole freakin block is about to be change out! Replace the AVCS oil line AND tap the turbo's oil feed from somewhere else!

 

There are something like four oil galley plugs in the block that subaru makes an OEM part you can pull oil from. One is located right next to the turbo!

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=230982&d=1464217427

 

 

yamie700 did it here with an oil sender: Oil pressure gauge install, empty oil galley

 

Turkeylord did it here to feed his turbo! Turbo Oil Feed From Block Galley - Opinions?

 

Would someone smarter than me on here advise if this would solve the oil starvation issues one and for all? It looks like this will get the highest pressure possible with the shortest lines and no added risk of knocking my oil filter off

 

Parts list for the turbo feed would look something like:

OEM plug

45* NTP to 4AN adapter

4AN hose

FP Oil Filter

Ring fitting

unrestricted banjo bolt

 

Then on the back of the block, maybe an oil feed line from a pre-avcs subie? The the bango size right for the OCV doing that?

 

Thanks!

 

(Source of oil galley pic here)

Edited May 25, 2016 by utc_pyro

FWIW, I have over 83,000 miles on my vf52 at 21psi, using the stock oil feed line with both OEM banjo filters removed in my 2005 GT.

 

I don't understand why a filter is needed before the turbo, if that filter gets plugged with crap, there is no bypass, which I believe is what the big oil filter on the engine has. I could be wrong, but even the engine manufacture figured out, dirt oil is better than on oil.

 

If that little filter get's plugged up, the turbo is starved for oil...if the turbo is starved for oil...what happens to your warranty claim...

 

May be I'm missing something.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Max Capacity

FWIW, I have over 83,000 miles on my vf52 at 21psi, using the stock oil feed line with both OEM banjo filters removed in my 2005 GT.

 

I don't understand why a filter is needed before the turbo, if that filter gets plugged with crap, there is no bypass, which I believe is what the big oil filter on the engine has. I could be wrong, but even the engine manufacture figured out, dirt oil is better than on oil.

 

If that little filter get's plugged up, the turbo is starved for oil...if the turbo is starved for oil...what happens to your warranty claim...

 

May be I'm missing something.

 

Every car differs. I have an 89 turbo mirage awd auto. I put a shift kit in the transmission and it's fast and reliable. I built a 96 eagle summit awd with the same power plant but I built the trans for big power. I spent probably 3 grand on the summit trans. We'll that trans has been out about 6 times, disassembled 3 times fully rebuilt twice because of internal valve body issues lol. But physically is the same transmission! Lol. I hate that sob.

I send you lots of business and you refer business elsewhere. That's dirty man.

 

Btw might I remind you I have seen more vf40 turbos than what you can emagine. 1% of cores were rebuildable. There is a problem with the oil supply. Now you telling people not to do the oil lines, you are setting them up for failure for sure.

 

Honestly I get far more questions from your customers than sales. Each one who calls takes 20-30 minutes of my time minimum. Many take much longer and call multiple times.

 

The last batch of 100 oil line kits took over 16 months to sell. So, not all the customers you are "sending" my way are buying anything as the oil line kit sales dont match the turbo sales. The slow sales and exorbitant amount of time spent explaining things is why the oil line kits have now been discontinued.

 

After working with several turbo manufactures and re-builders as well as servicing thousands of cars out of my own shop over the past 6 years, I do not see a need for an "upgraded" oil feed line. Its all about a clean engine and clean oil.

 

I am more than frustrated with the mind set of many manufacturers that all they need to do is create the perception of a problem, then sell the "fix" to the perceived issue. Regardless of whether the issue is real or not.

Honestly I get far more questions from your customers than sales. Each one who calls takes 20-30 minutes of my time minimum. Many take much longer and call multiple times.

 

The last batch of 100 oil line kits took over 16 months to sell. So, not all the customers you are "sending" my way are buying anything as the oil line kit sales dont match the turbo sales. The slow sales and exorbitant amount of time spent explaining things is why the oil line kits have now been discontinued.

 

After working with several turbo manufactures and re-builders as well as servicing thousands of cars out of my own shop over the past 6 years, I do not see a need for an "upgraded" oil feed line. Its all about a clean engine and clean oil.

 

I am more than frustrated with the mind set of many manufacturers that all they need to do is create the perception of a problem, then sell the "fix" to the perceived issue. Regardless of whether the issue is real or not.

 

 

When 99% of 1000 turbo cores that showed up at my shop with severed shafts, there is an issue sir. I do agree with you on the oil needing to be clean. But the failure rates of the vf40 is very alarming.

 

I have been building turbos for close to 20 years now and by far the most unreliable turbochargers have seen by far comes on the 05-09 LGt and xt! I have never seen so many shafts broken. The mazdaspeed 3/6 turbos fail left and right but their issue is turbine seal failure. Few speeds have unrebuildable cores.

 

As far as the LGT sales for me have been down since my web site went down a year ago. Wouldn't have mattered anyway because my exhaust housing mold broke and I couldn't produce anyway. So I had to take a long pause but now they are back in production.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Bryan@BNR

I do not doubt what you are seeing. I more than trust that you know how to build turbos. I have had zero failures with BNR turbos that I installed (that I can recall).

 

Imho the number 1 cause of failure in the VF40/46 is is oil starvation. However, imho the cause of the oil starvation is the oil change interval and possibly the additive pack in the oil used. Oil change intervals spread out to beyond 4000 miles leads to sludge build up, which in turn leads to blocked oil passages, which in turn leads to oil starvation. Also, as the oil gets older and dirtier the motors tend to eat more of it. So, low oil level becomes an issue too.

 

This can become a major issue for turbo manufactures whose turbos are used as a replacement. Basically because the new turbo dies the same horrible death the old turbo did (low oil), or the new turbo gets taken out by the contamination left over from the original (be it material in the oil system or that same material blocking oil flow).

 

I have yet to see a stock turbo Subaru move enough oil through the PCV system to take out a turbo/motor. But anything is possible.

I do not doubt what you are seeing. I more than trust that you know how to build turbos. I have had zero failures with BNR turbos that I installed (that I can recall).

 

Imho the number 1 cause of failure in the VF40/46 is is oil starvation. However, imho the cause of the oil starvation is the oil change interval and possibly the additive pack in the oil used. Oil change intervals spread out to beyond 4000 miles leads to sludge build up, which in turn leads to blocked oil passages, which in turn leads to oil starvation. Also, as the oil gets older and dirtier the motors tend to eat more of it. So, low oil level becomes an issue too.

 

This can become a major issue for turbo manufactures whose turbos are used as a replacement. Basically because the new turbo dies the same horrible death the old turbo did (low oil), or the new turbo gets taken out by the contamination left over from the original (be it material in the oil system or that same material blocking oil flow).

 

I have yet to see a stock turbo Subaru move enough oil through the PCV system to take out a turbo/motor. But anything is possible.

 

I change my oil every 3k miles and have an 11mm sti oil pump to feed the engine and turbo with plenty of oil. even though i did every thing you told me, to get the metal out of the engine I'm still worried. i took extra steps to make sure that the contamination doesn't kill the engine bearings. Graddy magnetic oil plug (aluminum nor stainless steal won't stick i believe), changed the oil filter on the ipt kit to a 40 micron after 50 miles and found some metal flakes. changed my oil filter after 100 miles.

Edited June 16, 2016 by HellShadow70

It is never a perfect fix. Flushing the motor is all you can do without breaking it down again. I dont know what happened on your build as I did not see it. But I know the engine was fresh, so previous contamination should not have been an issue. Should not... as I have seen more than a few heads come through that had the oil supply "galley" (internal) blocked from the machine shop that did the head work.

I don't have much to add, but I do want to say this: My second time my engine failed it ate a rod bearing. I sent my turbo in to Bryan for inspection. He checked it out at no charge, gave it a clean bill of health, and shipped it back to me at his expense. Fantastic customer service. AND that demonstrates the value and efficacy of Mike's filter kit. It did it's job and protected the turbo from all the bearing debris flowing through the oil passages. Kudos to both of you.

I have a 2005 Legacy by with a new engine, trans and clutch. I'm looking for info on replacing my stock turbo. This is my first turbo ever, I'm used to American musle hp. I like my legacy, I want to keep the the stock tmic as long as possible. So my question is a vf52 (or any different ideas) with a tune will make about what in hp?...and what is the rating as far as hp the trans can handle. THANKS GUYS.

I have a 2005 Legacy by with a new engine, trans and clutch. I'm looking for info on replacing my stock turbo. This is my first turbo ever, I'm used to American musle hp. I like my legacy, I want to keep the the stock tmic as long as possible. So my question is a vf52 (or any different ideas) with a tune will make about what in hp?...and what is the rating as far as hp the trans can handle. THANKS GUYS.

 

The vf52 in my wagon dynoed at 280whp on stock fueling with the basic stage 2 upgrades.

 

Over time you'll want a better tmic, both my cars have the GS tmic.

 

You'll want http://www.tuningalliance.com to do the tune. you can with the tactrix cable or Cobb AP. Contact them, Brian and Mike will take good care of your set up.

 

You don't need as much HP as you think. My wagon feels as if not faster then my old 1970 Duster 340 which could run high 12's back in the late 1970's.

 

If you have a 5eat you'll need to do some upgrades there, read about them in the Tranny Forum, look for HEXMODS.

do I need to re tune if i upgrade to a vf52 from vf40?

 

Bryan you have PM also