How does the Legacy's AWD compare to an A6's quattro?

I'm looking to expedite buying a house, and one of the things on my to do list for that goal is to get rid of my Audi and buy a cheaper car. With snow tires, the thing is a monster in snow, and I don't want to give that up, so I'm looking for a relatively cheap, fairly sporty sedan that still has AWD, which has lead me to the Legacy, probably of the 2005-06 vintage.

 

My car is an 2006 A6 3.2 with Torsen-based permanent AWD. Does anybody have any experience and insight to offer on how my current car's quattro would compare with a Legacy's AWD? With snow tires, I can stomp on the gas in 6in of fresh snow (or slush, or whatever) and the car won't miss a beat and will still throw me against my seat. A previously "boring" and timid driver, I now blast through snowy mountain roads probably a bit too fast and get genuinely excited when it snows.

 

I know the Legacy doesn't have ESP or traction control like my Audi, but mechanically, can the Legacy's driveline scratch through the snow in a straight line like my A6? Will it be more squirrely in corners?

 

Thanks.

Legacy Manuals are 50/50 torque split permanent AWD.

 

The Spec.B (09, maybe 07+) have a Torsen rear diff just like Audi.

 

Legacies do have ESP, it is called VDC.

 

Subaru AWD = Audi Quattro in the A6

I'm looking at 2006-2006 automatics. What kind of torque split do these have? Each thread on the topic seems to have different numbers.

 

Clearly not AWD systems are the same. If anyone has any experience, I'm wondering what the small differences between the A6's and Legacy's AWD systems amount to in snow drivability (Torsen vs viscous, I'm assuming different front/rear diffs, different approaches to traction control, torque splits, etc.) .

I've had a 2001 A6 4.2 sedan and a 2004 allroad 4.2 and have attended the Audi Club's ice and snow driving school in New Hampshire. I've owned several Subarus, including an SVX and 2006 spec.B, and now drive a 2007 spec.B. My wife has a 2007 Outback 3.0R. I assume that you're trying to compare a Legacy with automatic transmission. (Subaru, by the way, offers different AWD systems for various models.) Both 2007 Subarus have traction control and ESP. My experience is that shod with snow tires, the Subarus are equal to the A6. Our Outback's extra ground clearance is an advantage in the snow, but otherwise I prefer to drive the more entertaining spec.B. The current A6, which I've rented several times from Hertz, is a finer car than any Subaru, but a Subaru rarely needs to see a mechanic. Nonetheless, I'm thinking of a 2010 S4.

Yup. '08 has the Torsen LSD. And the following link is to an interesting video. They don't specifically talk about Audi but it's still interesting to watch. Should give you a little more insight into what Subaru Symmetrical AWD in the Legacy can do:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw]Subaru AWD vs Competitors[/ame]

 

Might help you out.

-joe-

There are now several different Torsen systems.

I'm looking at 2006-2006 automatics. What kind of torque split do these have? Each thread on the topic seems to have different numbers.

"Default" the traction split on a 5EAT is 44.3% on the front and 55.7% on the rear. Depending on conditions such as hard acceleration, braking, slip, the center differential will transfer torque as needed front/back.

Some people will quote you the traction being 90% front, 10% rear. This only applied to the previous generation 4-speed automatics and no longer true for the 2005 and newer Legacies.

There is an open differential on the front and a LSD on the rear. I am, however, not entirely sure if the 5EAT comes equipped with a Torsen or it is exclusively equipped with a viscous. In all honesty, I'd say that all you need to know is that Subaru's system is cheaper, simpler and just about as efficient.

On an 05-06 5EAT you will not get a Torsen, but viscous. I think the Torsen is equipped only on the newer spec.B 6-speed?

The manual tranny guys have the option of swapping in a LSD on the front. That is, however, not possible on the 5EAT.

It took a little bit of work but here, this might be a start to help explain the different systems:

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48112

Audi is unique in one sense... quattro is actually awd split between all four wheels independently of each other. Audi's newer than 04 also have independent ABS, meaning a single slipping wheel will have the brakes applied. vs subaru's system of wheels in groups of 2.

 

That being said, and having owned both... Subaru is the only other awd system on the market that's worth a damn. not quite as nice to drive, but really close. your lack of maintenance bills on the subaru, however, will make you never go back to audi.

Roughly the same in my observations of Allroad vs our LGT 5mt (50/50) both equipped with Nokian WR tires.

 

There are situations were one exceeds the other but the truth is every AWD system is compromise and has strengths and weaknesses. Audi and Subaru are top tier in AWD.

Cool video, but was I the only one who secretly wanted to see one of those cars go through that wall??

Cool video, but was I the only one who secretly wanted to see one of those cars go through that wall??

 

Nope. I thought the same thing. The Legacy almost did. I don't have any input on Audi. I've seen them in the snow and don't seem to have too many issues. I still love my Legacy and I will have another one before long.

I know all the info I've read about the AWD systems, and I've been a die hard Mitsu fan for all my life. For some reason I like the handling of my Mitsu's in that I've never had issues in the snow.. I've had from a 90 Eclipse all the way up every generation to an 03 Evolution.

 

Anyways I've also owned a few audi's a 99 A4 1.8T and a 2000 A6 2.8. Now I know the next generation got better... BUT I've noticed that I could get "stuck" with the Audi's easier in the snow. When trying to get out of a nice snow bank, the rear wheels always had a tendency to spin until I just floored the sucker. Someone told me that the differentials had to heat up the fluid to engage... but I didn't seem to read that.

 

Now on the Subaru (I have an 05 automatic). It drives nicer with the RWD bias, and all the wheels spin nicely. However it does get a little squirrely when I stomp on it. That could be my tires however.

 

Anyways.. I'm always skeptical about watching those videos since I'm sure it shows the weaknesses of the "competition".

 

Oh, just to add something else in the mix, we just bought a brand new Honda CR-V and it has the VSA etc. Maybe it's because it has no torque... maybe it's because the car has like 4,000 miles on it. BUT.. I had a hard time to get that thing to be squirrely or to spin out when stomping on it. In fact, I'd say it handled the best out of all the cars I've owned. (although I still think the Evo was the best, but I'm sure it's my fanboy attitude since I loved that car so much). Seriously.. that CR-V's awd and VSA worked wonders.. even tried to get it to spin out in the parking lot as I always try to "test" cars and tires when the snow falls to make sure I know the limits of my vehicles.

Audi is unique in one sense... quattro is actually awd split between all four wheels independently of each other. Audi's newer than 04 also have independent ABS, meaning a single slipping wheel will have the brakes applied. vs subaru's system of wheels in groups of 2.

 

That being said, and having owned both... Subaru is the only other awd system on the market that's worth a damn. not quite as nice to drive, but really close. your lack of maintenance bills on the subaru, however, will make you never go back to audi.

Wouldn't that be something like the torque-vectoring AWD systems? Audi used to use a Torsen center and rear differential. This wouldn't deliver power to each individual wheel. In recent years they have done what many companies have done, dropped the rear diff for one of the "ediff" systems that uses electronics to control power. I believe the front on them is still an open differential.

Another data point:

 

Our 08 GT 5EAT is at least as good as my 97 A4 1.8tq was. IIRC the A4 had a torsen center diff but open front and rear diffs. Not sure if the A6 you're comparing it to has a limited slip rear or not. since the Subaru has a viscous limited slip in the rear it allows a little more control of the tail of the car around corners than the audi did, and perhaps a little more acceleration in a straight line...you can goose the throttle and bring the tail around, where on the A4 it would just cause the car to go into a wider arc. I never had issues with the A4 getting stuck, and doubt we will with the Legacy either. Personally the Legacy is more fun to drive in the snow than the A4 was, but the 50-ish horsepower difference (my A4 was chipped to ~200 hp) probably has something to do with that as well.

I own both a 2008 GT Spec B and a 2000 Audi A6 4.2 Quattro.

 

AWD for AWD, they are comparable cars. Beyond that, the Audi trumps the Subaru all day long IMO. Except for gas mileage... obviously I guzzle gas in my 4.2. So, be ready for the downgrade in quality... but you probably knew that. The Subaru is a little more 'nimble' with good steering feedback, but it is a smaller car than the A6.

 

So, as far as handling goes you won't be disappointed. Just get good snow tires for the Subaru.

You will be fine. My wife must be at her job every day, no questions asked, and her Outback has performed like a champ in this weather. We traded her A6 for the Outback and I liked the whole experience so much that I soon went for a Legacy daily driver. We've also been beneficiaries of some great Subaru dealer service. The A6 was a nice car, but I don't miss: 1) paying for premium gas as the per-gallon price heads back up to $4 or more, 2) getting lower gas mileage, 3) paying more than $27 for a dealer oil change, 4) having the car in the shop frequently for costly repairs, and 5) the impersonal Audi dealer service, which they thought they could make up for by placing a capuccino machine in the corner. I did the whole European luxury car thing when I was younger and out to impress others. Audi makes a fine car, but the regular, middle-class brands have now gotten so good that you don't really have to pay more unless that European badge is important to you. When I think that our two Subarus cost about the same as one well-equipped A6, I smile. You're making a wise economic decision.

yup thats why i got my 05 lgt subaru, boxer engine with the best damn awd

best investment ever ftw

Sold my Range Rover and got my 05 outback. People say Im crazy but it was a wise choice. Rover 4x4 was excellent but when they break they do it hard. Subaru really impressed me this winter in New England. Its a keeper