2009 brakes lock up on snow

Why do my brakes lock up in snow? When this happens you can push as hard as you want and you are not going to stop. If you release the brake and hit it again you get the same results. I put new tires on three weeks ago. This is my first suburu. I have always owned dodges in the past and have never had this problem. It has been to two different dealers with the same results. All systems checked out fine. My driveway is a short hill and it was a little scary watching my wife slide down the hill and into the road. Only the right front wheel locks, the others are free wheeling. HELP!!!

is the abs light on ?

 

also .. there is typically a minimum speed for abs . like 5 mph .

This seems to indicate that there is a problem with your brake system. The brake system uses a diagonal arrangement of two circuits and it may mean that one of the circuits needs either bleeding or that there is a stuck piston on the front caliper that doesn't lock up.

 

However the car should have ABS so it shouldn't lock completely. But ABS engaging will be felt through the brake pedal.

 

In any case it does seem like you need to take a trip to the dealer and check that out. Also check if the ABS light comes on when you turn on the ignition but don't start the engine.

 

Did you buy it used or new? If you bought it used then in theory previous owner may have messed up the car some way, but my first thought is a stuck caliper or piston on one of the front wheels.

 

The fact that the rear wheels doesn't lock is due to the lower brake force applied on the rear wheels. If you really push the brake pedal they shall also engage.

I'm sorry, I guess you didn't read my whole message. It has been to two different dealers with the same results. All systems checked out fine. You can push on the brake as hard as you want and none of the other wheels will stop you.

Thanks,dkellis

 

Answering PM in thread:

Which doesn't rule out that the dealer people really did do anything right. Just because it's a dealer doesn't mean that they put their sharpest blade on a job like that. Most people fixing cars today reads codes and replaces parts without checking if there is a real problem.

 

Also be aware that what you may have is an ice plug in the brake system so you may need to take the car into a warm garage overnight and flush the brake system with new fluid all around. Brake fluid do attract moisture from the air.

 

Other causes may be a broken main cylinder so that pressure from one circuit just bleeds back into the fluid container.

 

And check around for a completely independent workshop in your area with good reputation and have them take a look at the problem.

No, the abs light is not on. Besides the dealer would of picked up on that but thanks anyway. Still really puzzeled.

you can try and remove the abs fuse and see if all 4 wheels lock up proporly this will help diagnose the problem as with the abs or the rest of the braking system.

a few lights will flash on the dash but will turn off once the fuse is replaced. the fuse should be in the under hood fuse box next to the battery.

No, the abs light is not on. Besides the dealer would of picked up on that but thanks anyway. Still really puzzeled.

 

Be aware that if the ABS system is totally dead the ABS light won't come on at all. Or if the "right" combination of ABS fuses are blown.

 

Take your pick - a light isn't very smart by itself and Murphy's law is always the rule.

I know you are trying to help,thank you so much. Evergreen Suburu in Auburn, Maine has the top rated tech in New England. He said he checked the brake pressure to each wheel and all checked out fine. He also stated that he went to a Subaru tech forum for similar problems and all signs point to my tires. My tires are three weeks old.

Be aware that if the ABS system is totally dead the ABS light won't come on at all. Or if the "right" combination of ABS fuses are blown.

 

Take your pick - a light isn't very smart by itself and Murphy's law is always the rule.

 

if the abs system is totally dead or anything the cel light comes on due to a can comunication system error.

 

make a video of the problem so we can better help you.

or jsut do a simple brake test .. go up to 30 mph or 50 kmph in a safe location and push on the brakes as hard as you can.

if the abs system is totally dead or anything the cel light comes on due to a can comunication system error.

 

make a video of the problem so we can better help you.

 

Fair enough. I'm just assuming Murphy's law.

 

But I would start with mechanical issues first - including a stuck valve in the ABS unit.

There are many reports of ABS, not just Subaru, having issues with snow and gravel. The ABS detects initial lock-up, and then reduces pressure. The brakes are not locking up, they're effectively not actuating at all.

I've not experienced it, but you'd think they'd have this figured out by now.

 

Did you try braking less? or the handbrake?

 

What year? how many miles? MT or AT? Winter package (not sure that applies)?

What tires?

2009 Legecy Limited, 34,000 thousand miles,AT, when I bought the tires three weeks ago I was told they were all season radials but now upon further inspection I see there are no sipes in the tread. Would this make a difference with abs and why?

2009 Legecy Limited, 34,000 thousand miles,AT, when I bought the tires three weeks ago I was told they were all season radials but now upon further inspection I see there are no sipes in the tread. Would this make a difference with abs and why?

 

All-seasons or summer: A set of hockey pucks this time of year.

 

But in reality - check the markings on the tires - brand & model and then go to Tire Rack and see what they say about it. But I would really recommend a set of true winter wheels. This means tires with a M+S designation and also in some cases mountain/snowflake symbol.

http://www.tirerack.com/images/winter/photos/tech/severe_snowflake.gif

See also: http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=125

 

A set of good tires is essential - and in the long run a cheap life insurance, especially when it comes to winter tires.

Take a look here to get a list of tires: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?tireIndex=0&autoMake=Subaru&autoYear=2009&autoModel=Legacy+Sedan&autoModClar=2.5I+Limited&width=205/&ratio=50&diameter=17&sortCode=49400&skipOver=true&minSpeedRating=H&minLoadRating=S&tab=All

You will have to de-select the summer and all-seasons to get a list of true winter tires to select from.

 

But still - you shouldn't get a lock on one wheel and not the other, the ABS should engage, or both tires should lock. Just make sure you press the pedal hard enough.

Thanks to all of you. I think if I'm having this problem already, something they really can't figure out, its time to trade. And possibly back to a grand cherikee.

Thanks again, dkellis of Maine

If they can't figure it out - it's because they aren't really trying.

The abs is doing what its supposed too. As mentioned above ABS systems are funky that way on ice/snow/gravel/sand. Get snow tires or try reducing tire inflation a little. Sometimes when they put new tires on a car they over inflate them.

 

I'm curious what make and model of tire?

Sounds like your tires are not up to the task. All seasons are only good if you don't have snow where you live IMO.

 

Does the ABS make any noise when your one tire is locking up, indicating it is working?

I know you are trying to help,thank you so much. Evergreen Suburu in Auburn, Maine has the top rated tech in New England. He said he checked the brake pressure to each wheel and all checked out fine. He also stated that he went to a Subaru tech forum for similar problems and all signs point to my tires. My tires are three weeks old.

Evergreen is about the best and only dealer in Maine I'd ever trust with a car. I have heard excellent things about them, although I have never been myself. Unfortunately I'm stuck in the Orono area for school, so I get stuck with the morons working at Quirk Subaru. I realize this is completely off topic, but it's nice to see another Mainer on here, although I am from New York and I'm only in Maine for school.

 

People on here are just trying to help you out by offering logical and plausible ideas for a solution. Don't dismiss them before you are sure they are not the cause of the problem. You say the brakes are "locking up." Do you mean that the ABS is not working at all and you can visually see all four wheels locking up and skidding?

 

Tires are a big factor. You say you are in Maine, you should know better than to run all-seasons in the winter. The first thing I did during my first Maine winter was set my vehicle up with excellent snow tires. Tires are your only contact patch with the road. When that road is cold, has snow or ice on it, you want something that can handle that situation. What tires are on the vehicle and what is their tread depth? I really want to blame the issue on tires, not the vehicle's ABS system. Then again, I haven't been in your car to see what it's doing, I'm only going by your descriptions. As a Mainer I would think you would know the benefits of snow tires in the winter .

 

The abs is doing what its supposed too. As mentioned above ABS systems are funky that way on ice/snow/gravel/sand. Get snow tires or try reducing tire inflation a little. Sometimes when they put new tires on a car they over inflate them.

 

I'm curious what make and model of tire?

You actually want slightly higher pressure in the winter. This prevents the tire from "flattening out," and having a larger contact patch. The idea is a tire with higher inflation will be narrower and cut through the snow better.

It's tires, pure and simple. It appears you

 

For your tires to lock up at all (assuming your brakes work fine in day to day use), then your tires have lost traction.

 

If your tires are locking up easily on snow when you apply your brakes, then its the tires. If your brake pedal pulsates when they lock, that's ABS trying to unlock them. If your brake pedal doesn't pulsate, that can be ok too.

 

A legacy, a grand cherokee, a 10-wheel dump truck....they'll all lock up easily on snow if you aren't wearing appropriate tires.

 

Joe

 

P.s. I just put Michelin Pilot Exalto All seasons on my 2008 Legacy. These are great tires all around, with sipes. After breaking them in (tires take a few hundred miles to get to their optimum grip levels), I drove out on snow and hit my brakes at a less-than-normal level of pressure. I locked up and skidded 30 feet.

 

Tires.

just my .02 but blizzaks are a great winter tire, heads and shoulders better than an all season would be in snow. at least try a set of designated winters before a trade in, and you might be surprised w/ the results. good luck with the diagnosis.

It's tires, pure and simple. It appears you

 

For your tires to lock up at all (assuming your brakes work fine in day to day use), then your tires have lost traction.

 

If your tires are locking up easily on snow when you apply your brakes, then its the tires. If your brake pedal pulsates when they lock, that's ABS trying to unlock them. If your brake pedal doesn't pulsate, that can be ok too.

 

A legacy, a grand cherokee, a 10-wheel dump truck....they'll all lock up easily on snow if you aren't wearing appropriate tires.

 

Joe

 

P.s. I just put Michelin Pilot Exalto All seasons on my 2008 Legacy. These are great tires all around, with sipes. After breaking them in (tires take a few hundred miles to get to their optimum grip levels), I drove out on snow and hit my brakes at a less-than-normal level of pressure. I locked up and skidded 30 feet.

 

Tires.

 

+ a gazillion:)

Have someone take a video outside the car showing the wheels locking up as yo come to a stop. Perhaps it is possible that you are interpreting one "feel" as something else.

Have someone take a video outside the car showing the wheels locking up as yo come to a stop. Perhaps it is possible that you are interpreting one "feel" as something else.

 

yep +1 ! its probably nothing wrong just bad traction

Wow! I went off line for the rest of the day and now that I am back I see you guys have figured it out for me. First off I have lived in Maine all my life and have run all season radial every winter. On my cars, on my pick-up and even on my plow truck. I have never had an accident. I guess it comes down to knowing how to drive. The only people I know that run snow tires are the people that moved to Maine and are scared and if you are scared to drive on snow that is when you have accidents. I have a class "A" License and for about thirty years now I've been hauling wood out of the Maine woods. It could be the tires. My problem is that I trust people to much and I allowed my tire guy to put tires on my car without looking at them. They look like a very agresive tire. But not all season. My problem is ABS. It seems that if a tire locks up the sensor should release that wheel and tranffer the breaking power to the other wheels. Even with summer tires. I do appreciate everyones input. I guess I need to get a set of real all season radials. I will look at them first this time. Thanks again.