LGT Owners, what car will you drive next?

Rear wheel drive based AWD systems are junk in snow. As soon as you have wheel slip the traction control cuts throttle since that's the only option.

Are you on drugs? So wrong.

Are you on drugs? So wrong.

Mazdaspeed6, fwd based system with LSDs front and rear and defaulting to 50/50 f/r. Fantastic in snow.

Subaru, viscous center diff system. Fantastic in snow, but not quite as good as the Mazda.

Infiniti G35x, RWD based system. Terrible in snow. As soon as you have wheel slip, the ecu cuts all throttle. Its maddening.

What RWD AWD platforms do you have opposite experience with?

Mazdaspeed6, fwd based system with LSDs front and rear and defaulting to 50/50 f/r. Fantastic in snow.

 

Subaru, viscous center diff system. Fantastic in snow, but not quite as good as the Mazda.

 

Infiniti G35x, RWD based system. Terrible in snow. As soon as you have wheel slip, the ecu cuts all throttle. Its maddening.

 

What RWD AWD platforms do you have opposite experience with?

I have driven a 2012 G37 (RWD based), and Acura (RWD), they were both pretty good but NEITHER felt as good as a subaru

I will play devils advocate and say those are 3 brands, and older cars at that.

Lets choose 3 different cars just to play fair.

Honda has a FWD based system in the CR-V, anyone know if its any good in the snow? I feel the Acrua SH-AWD isn't based the same way

Subaru's we all know are awesome, but mine isn't the viscous center diff due to the 5EAT, its a VTD and normally is 45:55 and while it works a bit differently, it can lock like manual transmissions at 50:50.

What about Lexus? They do use RWD platforms BUT their parent company Toyota uses FWD.

Yes Lexus and Toyota are the same company but a lot of those manufacturers have agreements that one has a FWD platform (Honda, Nissan, Toyota) but the luxury brands get the RWD options (Acura, Infiniti, Lexus)

I feel like this statement cannot be generalized (one is great, one is better, one is bad), but might be MFG specific.

You have had 3 different systems, but its possible the Infiniti AWD is garbage but the Lexus one with the RWD platform is great. Same with the Mazda to Honda. Mazda might be very good, and the Honda one might be crap.

My suggestion. Test drive in bad weather, see what you get.

We already know Subaru's are one of, if not the best

We must be living in parallel universes . Or maybe IS-F sales are very seasonal, and this is the low season. I just tried autotrader nationwide, under 60k miles. There were 3 '11s and 3 '12s under $40k - and by "under $40k", I mean that only one was less than $36k. 3 in the mid 40s for mileage, 3 in the 50s. The cheapest '14 was $49.9k.

 

I hear the rear legroom is worse than regular 350 IS models, and that's already pretty tight, so maybe I wouldn't want it anyway, but if you can point me to a '14 model with 30-40k miles in the mid 30s, please let me know.

I suppose it is seasonal, because they're almost all gone now. There were a few on some of the forums as well. Rear legroom isn't an issue for me anyway. I get sedans because I like the look of them over coupes. The rear seats in my GT are unused. No kids or pets in our future.

Mazdaspeed6, fwd based system with LSDs front and rear and defaulting to 50/50 f/r. Fantastic in snow.

 

Subaru, viscous center diff system. Fantastic in snow, but not quite as good as the Mazda.

 

Infiniti G35x, RWD based system. Terrible in snow. As soon as you have wheel slip, the ecu cuts all throttle. Its maddening.

 

What RWD AWD platforms do you have opposite experience with?

Your comparison is nearly worthless unless you had the same tires on each car and the same conditions. Furthermore, the infinity's problems you're describing don't sound even remotely AWD based, it sounds like overly-intrusive traction control which can plague any car of any drive type.

You're also comparing an LSD system to one without, as well as not mentioning traction control or lack thereof between the other two cars.

As for my experience, my wife's Buick Rainier is awesome in the snow, and that's RWD until the computer kicks in the front wheels for the AWD. It's significantly worse if you let the traction control decide your wheels spin for you, but that's the case in almost every car under the right conditions.

Personally, I've driven mostly FWD cars (none of which had traction control) but the AWD ones I have driven were Quattro (actual Torsen quattro, not that FWD haldex bullshit) and Subaru's symmetrical - but only with manual transmissions so I get the benefit of 50/50 torque split.

Your comparison is nearly worthless unless you had the same tires on each car and the same conditions.

Truth, hard to compare. But if we're trying... In addition to Subaru's Symmetrical AWD (via 5MT and 6MT), I've driven BMW X-Drive, Audi Quattro, and Maserati Q4 all in the snow. IMO Subaru > Audi >> Maser >> BMW*, with the caveat being the Bimmer was on all-seasons. Maser on Pirelli Sottozeros, Audi on Conti winters, and Subaru 5&6 MTs on a handful of winter tires. Even on decent winter tires, I'd think the BMW and Infiniti AWDs would have a tough time keeping up with the others. My pref is definitely Subaru's system. No traction control needed, IMO.

I should've posted this in here rather than Random Thoughts, but the famous Amuse Carbon R is currently up for sale. Someone on here should make that their next car haha.

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/76071/new-price-the-famouse-amuse-carbon-r34

Audi Quattro

Actual Torsen quattro or Haldex-based rebranded as Quattro? There is a huge difference in capability.

Actual Torsen quattro or Haldex-based rebranded as Quattro? There is a huge difference in capability.

Late 90's A4 1.8T and an '04 A6 2.7T. Almost positive the A4 was TorSen, not sure on the A6 but both were quite good. A4 was better IMO because it was stick. The A6 was available in stick. That'd be a nice car, especially with a pair of RS4 turbos

I think Brandon Moi is describing reactive awd systems that are normally only driving 2wd. The VTD Subaru's are rwd based but Subaru normally engages the front wheels during regular driving.

I would say rear wheel biased not based and all wheels are always engaged in all of subarus systems IIRC the DCCD system isn't even 100% either way.

I tend to think of the system that uses TC the least is the more effective one. And while I have heard great things about SHawd the standard AWD in honda isnt worth the fuel efficiency drop.

Subaru's VTD and viscoupled MT as well as the sti DCCD are all rwd biased. The transmission is directly connected to the rear wheels. It's the front wheels that slip. An awd system by function can not provide power to all wheel equally or it would stress and break the driveline going around corners.

I am not sure I get what you mean by the DCCD sti trans being rear biased, isn't the function of the center diff controller to allow the driver to choose front or rear bias?

Any locked AWD/4wd would not break components going around a curve, it might make lots of unhappy noises and wear out tires like crazy...

At any rate noone claimed such a crazy thing was happening, I merely stated in my reckoning subarus awd systems never leaves a wheel unpowered. That doesn't mean equally powered.

Subaru's VTD and viscoupled MT as well as the sti DCCD are all rwd biased. The transmission is directly connected to the rear wheels.

When a 6MT with DCCD is off/disconnected, the bias is 30% front, 70% rear if I recall correctly. There were other STi 6MT's without DCCD where the split was much closer to 50/50.

It's the front wheels that slip.

It's the rear wheels that slip in a 30/70 split. The fronts don't usually get enough power to slip.

An awd system by function can not provide power to all wheel equally or it would stress and break the driveline going around corners.

Yes an AWD system can. What you're talking about there is four wheel drive with locked differentials. And as mentioned it's the tires that usually bear the brunt of that wear, just listen to any locked diff around a parking lot.

http://jalopnik.com/you-can-save-a-ton-of-money-by-buying-a-performance-car-1790315723

sweet, time to tell the wife we can save over $16,000 on a GTR

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af38/stu-nami/IMAG1503_zpsvjghncfr.jpg

Spotted last night 116g here, no discount yet.

I am not sure I get what you mean by the DCCD sti trans being rear biased, isn't the function of the center diff controller to allow the driver to choose front or rear bias?

 

I merely stated in my reckoning subarus awd systems never leaves a wheel unpowered. That doesn't mean equally powered.

I think you are losing focus on how a awd function vs its characteristics (often described through marketing advertisements and car magazines which the writer are sometime confused about or doesn't do a good job explaining. The engineering explained guy does not do a good job in awd tutorial, I am not sure he fully understands the topic.) it wasn't until I went rebuild an awd transfer case 10 years ago that I grasped a much better understanding on how these systems work.

Subaru awd as with most awd system is mechanically connected to a differential from the output of a transmision. (RWD for the VC 6MT, dccd STi, and VTD). In these applications, The front differential is connected through a viscous coupler or electronically control clutches. The STi DCCD cannot be fwd only it is controls the how much of the front diff is engaged, the rear wheels are always connected and that cannot be changed.

In the VTD and DCCD, the ecm is disconnecting the front wheels. A cvt in normal driving is engage the non driving wheels with a 60% duty cycle. This means for every 100 seconds with a 60 sec duty cycle, the non mechanically connected wheels are disconnected for 40 secs. I don't know exactly what the cycle time is but it's likely disconected for a fraction of a second. When the ecm senses more throttle applied or wheel slipping the logic likely engages the front differential more often. It is probably very rare that the ecm would engage the front differential 100%. The STi uses electronically controlled clutches and use the similar engagement technic of the front wheels.

When a 6MT with DCCD is off/disconnected, the bias is 30% front, 70% rear if I recall correctly. There were other STi 6MT's without DCCD where the split was much closer to 50/50.

The STi 30/70 (or what ever the split is) and 45/55 VTD split is the initial bias created by the planetary gears when the front and rear wheels are spinning at different speeds. The rear output going to the rear wheels are geared 1:1. The fronts are under driven by the 70/30 or 55/45 ratio before the ecm controlled electronic clutch. The output going to the front wheels are geared back up 30/70 or 45/55 to match the rear output speed. if one was to got wot in a low traction evironment, the initial torque would be rearward bias and would gravitate to 50/50 as the duty cycle is increase on the electronic clutch. If electronic clutch is locked up 100%, the split is 50/50.

But the STI system uses 3 center diffs, and can bias up to 90 percent forward or rear, never 100% in either direction...that is my understanding so your saying it can be 100% rearward. Edit-I'm not sure where or if I read that part now, lol. Please point me to some good reading for future reference.

Also on older MPT transmissions, the clutch was used to bias torque rearward hence the fuse available to engage FWD only. My understanding of subarus systems just doesn't jive with what you are saying. Even the viscouple is mechanically connected to the front then transfers rearward through fluid coupling.

Here is a source I read up on it in.

http://www.awdwiki.com/en/subaru/

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af38/stu-nami/IMAG1503_zpsvjghncfr.jpg

Spotted last night 116g here, no discount yet.

I supposed the alternative is to import a nissan skyline r32 gtr as the are now over the 25 year mark, became legal for import in 2014? if my facts are incorrect feel free to educate me on importing cars into usa as this differers from australia......

You can purchase R32 very soon R33. Virginia imports them all the time. Paperwork is done and the car is already register in the state of Virginia. I'm waiting for the R34 to be release or I may have to get a Fairlady 240Z or 260Z this is what my wife want. If I do get the Fairlady it's getting a R34 Nismo engine swap. I'm also waiting for the FT-1 Supra to be release. That all have to wait till I sell my home and purchase another home first.

Here is there website.

https://www.japaneseclassics.com/

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