Variable Electronic Supercharger

Nothing wrong with an electric turbo.....

 

future tech will have lots of cars with an electric one to eliminate lag while the exhaust driven one spools.

Truth. Apparently the next iteration of the WRX will have an electric turbocharger. .

Phantom ESC spool up time from idle to max RPM ~ 500ms now.

That's for the latest revision of the TQ250 24-28V model (the one used in the FT86/BRZ/FRS v2.0 kits)

A 4kW brush-less motor with sealed ceramic bearings, supporting up to ~ 400CFMs and building up to 5psi MAP.

There is also a larger TQ300 model in R&D right now, which would be needed for something such as the H6 3.6R or any NA engine outputting >240-250BHP.

The key requirement here is the 'air-pump's' flow characteristics and air appetite, displacement is irrelevant.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2075844&postcount=8125

http://www.phantomsuperchargers.com/fts-tq25024v.html

I know small electric motors spin fast, but the larger the blades it's trying to spin the longer it will take to get the momentum, but again probably still a lot faster than the turbo would spin (read: spool).

Wow you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You can buy a 50k rpm brushless motor for RC cars that will put down from 3-5 hp and they have gotten bigger and faster since I was last involved in the hobby. The technology has been out for years it's just a matter of getting the designs worked out and hammering away at reliability for this type of application.

This is the only "real" electric supercharger that seems to work...albeit with adding a bunch of weight by way of batteries.

 

OP, good luck...are you planning on getting it tuned? Will you do a base, post installation and post tune dyno? (3 comparisons)

Yup, I do plan to get it tuned. Actually the seller advice it would be best to get it tuned. Still searching on where to get to get dyno here. I saw in one forum that doing some dyno testing their electric supercharger. Still waiting for them to reply back.

Phantom ESC spool up time from idle to max RPM ~ 500ms now.

That's for the latest revision of the TQ250 24-28V model (the one used in the FT86/BRZ/FRS v2.0 kits)

 

A 4kW brush-less motor with sealed ceramic bearings, supporting up to ~ 400CFMs and building up to 5psi MAP.

 

There is also a larger TQ300 model in R&D right now, which would be needed for something such as the H6 3.6R or any NA engine outputting >240-250BHP.

The key requirement here is the 'air-pump's' flow characteristics and air appetite, displacement is irrelevant.

 

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2075844&postcount=8125

http://www.phantomsuperchargers.com/fts-tq25024v.html

Wow you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You can buy a 50k rpm brushless motor for RC cars that will put down from 3-5 hp and they have gotten bigger and faster since I was last involved in the hobby. The technology has been out for years it's just a matter of getting the designs worked out and hammering away at reliability for this type of application.

All good, I can admit when I am wrong, I digress. Everything I have seen in the past just equated to a hair dryer/bilge pump/leaf blower being hooked up to your car showing the same or negative gains.

Phantom does seem to be producing a viable product. Wondering how OPs will compare.

Still haven't got a reply on where to get the car dynoed. Anyway, I'm still waiting for a replacement of the regulator box of the e-supercharger. I had a test fit last weekend and find out that the wire of the regulator box was actually too short. I had to sent it back and they will send me another replacement box.

I also asked them if they have dyno run of this thing and they said they have but with their older generation of the SC. They said they are soon to schedule another dyno test of their latest 8th gen e-SC. They are quite optimistic of at least 20-30% improvement with the latest generation.

Anyway, while looking for where to do dyno, I came acrossed with the test result of another e-supercharger company here in China. This is one of the two best SC maker here in terms of quality. But their supercharger cost much more.

Few months back, I've already seen this and was actually inquiring about this. They said they will have a dealer here in Beijing within the next few months, since they prefer they will be the one to install this thing. So I said, I can wait not until I got this offer to test from another SC company.

Looking at their dyno test result, it was actually quite an improvement. Their test car was a Mazda 6 with 2.0 liter engine. Without the supercharger, they got max HP of 49.7 and with the SC, max of 83.7HP

I only had a little question here why their stock dyno only got 49.7HP and I know the stock Mazda 6 with 2L engine is rated at 140HP. Not sure if this is a load or inertia dyno?

I'm having issues attaching photos here of the chart, but anyway, you can see them in the video below for the chart and the dyno test itself.

Almost at the end, they also had some actual test of 0-100km/hr run comparing the SC Mazda 6 2.0L versus Mazda 6 2.3L and some Chinese cars.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTE2OTA1MDMy.html

Dyno are mostly good for measuring changes in output. The actual reading can vary from dyno to dyno even within the same region.

My car could put down 200 hp at a shop in Tampa, and then 180 in Orlando. But measure the same change in power before and after a tune.

A 2.0 engine is not going to put down 50hp in stock form and 90 with an electric blower. I would question their testing methodology.

I am not saying there are no gains. I am saying I am highly dubious of their testing.

Depends on if it was an inertia or load based. And what kind of correction factors were input into the dyno. It is just a tool it takes a competent operator to get good results. Are you sure it was hp not kw

That gain is very suspicious.

Depends on if it was an inertia or load based. And what kind of correction factors were input into the dyno. It is just a tool it takes a competent operator to get good results. Are you sure it was hp not kw

 

That gain is very suspicious.

you can easily make a 5% difference between dyno runs using the same methodology (SAE correction, hood up, fan blowing, etc.) just by a difference in engine temperature. You can make a 10% difference by manipulating the hood up/down and fan blowing/not blowing.

Suspicious indeed.

you can easily make a 5% difference between dyno runs using the same methodology (SAE correction, hood up, fan blowing, etc.) just by a difference in engine temperature. You can make a 10% difference by manipulating the hood up/down and fan blowing/not blowing.

 

Suspicious indeed.

The only good thing is that they were able to get consistent result out with or without supercharger.

Without SC - 49.7, 52 HP

With SC 83.7, 85.4 HP

But still don't know why their hp is so slow, not unless it's in another units as FLlegacy suggested. It's quite possible especially the software are in English and they are not set properly.

Btw, speaking of dyno, how much do they charge per dyno test session in US? I have just got a reply that it cost about USD170 here :-( Now, it makes me double think whether to go ahead or not with the dyno.

Depends on if it was an inertia or load based. And what kind of correction factors were input into the dyno. It is just a tool it takes a competent operator to get good results. Are you sure it was hp not kw

 

That gain is very suspicious.

If it's in kw, it's still not high enough 50hp is only 62.+kw

But looking at their chart label (y-axis), it really says HP.

It runs me $120 for 3 pulls and then another $30 per additional pull. I will usually do 5.

It gets expensive real quick, but if I cant tell if there is a measureable gain, I don't do it.

Now, if it is a well established company that has a product for my car with pre and post dynos, I would not be as adamant about pre and post dyno runs.

Case in point is the takeda intake. I didnt have to get it dynoed, but I just wanted to know what I gained and where.

R&D is something that must be measured. The single exhaust I had installed, if it didnt make power, I was going to trash it.

I hope you will have a well documented trial.

Good luck.

It runs me $120 for 3 pulls and then another $30 per additional pull. I will usually do 5.

 

It gets expensive real quick, but if I cant tell if there is a measureable gain, I don't do it.

 

Now, if it is a well established company that has a product for my car with pre and post dynos, I would not be as adamant about pre and post dyno runs.

 

Case in point is the takeda intake. I didnt have to get it dynoed, but I just wanted to know what I gained and where.

 

R&D is something that must be measured. The single exhaust I had installed, if it didnt make power, I was going to trash it.

 

I hope you will have a well documented trial.

 

Good luck.

Thanks Fred. I will probably install this thing on weekend to see how it feels. If I don't feel anything at all, I won't get it dynoed and will just return it. On the other hand, if I can feel some considerable gain, I will schedule a dyno next week to see how much gain we can get from this thing. While I'm there, I will also try to measure how much gain I've got from installing the Okada ignition coil. Let's just hope for the best. Hope to get the replacement regulator box today.

^^^ you have to be careful there.

Case in point, when Perscitus installed his headers, a drop in power was measured. Once the car was tuned, there was a big gain.

It isnt as black and white as adding an intake or a cat-back exbaust.

^^^ you have to be careful there.

 

Case in point, when Perscitus installed his headers, a drop in power was measured. Once the car was tuned, there was a big gain.

 

It isnt as black and white as adding an intake or a cat-back exbaust.

Thanks man. I will keep that in mind.

I was able to install the e-supercharger last weekend and have been playing with this for almost a week. The install was actually easy as you have to tap two wires from the regulator to the throttle body and another to either ignition coil/fuel injector connector to get signal for the throttle body opening and rpm respectively. Remove the 2nd section of OEM tubing to the throttle body, install the supplied rubber tubing and follow the instruction in the manual to connect the supercharger. For me, I have to do a slight cutting of the bended rubber tube to fit. Install the regulator and find a place to install this, mine I have to install this near the car battery. Connect all the cables to the regulator, connect positive and negative cables of the regulator to the battery. Connect the wireless regulator monitor power cable to cigarette lighter power outlet. Once everything is connected, we are ready to start the car.

For the initial start, the e-supercharger need to be configured, it has a feature to auto learn which can be done thru the wireless regulator monitor. There’s also a test where the supercharger speed will be tested variably from slow speed to max speed. You can also program the supercharger to start at specific RPM, they suggest me to set it to 1200. The supercharger speed are dependent to two variable - RPM and the throttle opening. This also allows you to used either of the 4 settings:

P0 – turns off the supercharger

P1 – P4, with P4 being the strongest, the manual suggest this to be use for racing only. They’ve suggested P3 for my car.

My initial impression of the supercharger was good. I could easily feel my low to mid end torque to have greatly improved. Not sure what’s the published 0-100kph for 2.5i NA? But I think to get a more accurate result, I have to get a GTECH pro or an AIM solo. It’s a little difficult to ask someone beside me to time and record the test accurately. I don’t know why I can’t use my Torque pro accurately. There’s one run where I keep getting bad results like 13.5 sec and 23 sec using Torque pro, not sure if it has something to do with the GPS or my settings in Torque pro. That’s why I gave up and have no other choice but to do this manually and ask someone to record the test with me. I will probably order a GTECH pro and if I have time, I will retest another 0-100kph run again with and without SC.

For the meantime, I have been observing, monitoring and collecting some performance data using the Torque pro. I’m thinking of getting a stage 1 tune. I think with stage1 tune, this SC should work even better. Anyone here got their 2.5i NA ECU tuned? I have already ordered a Tactrix cable and hope to start to tune this car myself if I could not find someone tuning this car.

Try a smartphone app called "Car Performance". There is a free version.

It uses satellites for positioning. It is decent.

Do some runs in both directions with the e-supercharger, disconnect, and do some runs in both directions without. See if there is any measurable difference.

Try a smartphone app called "Car Performance". There is a free version.

 

It uses satellites for positioning. It is decent.

 

Do some runs in both directions with the e-supercharger, disconnect, and do some runs in both directions without. See if there is any measurable difference.

Thanks. I will check on that software.