Sunra Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I know this has been an ongoing discussion today (and earlier!), but wanted to get some different opinions consolidated in this thread... What do you think of BMW's AWD compared to Subie's AWD in REAL WINTER conditions? I mean, in northern climates (I'm in Canada, but also upper NY state, Colorado, etc) where's there tons of snow and ice and hills and back roads and where AWD is a necessity in the winter. Not talking about fancy driving here, just maintaining traction on the road! Do you think one beats the other under these kinds of northern conditions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 BMW's system is not as good On the other hand, with a good set of snow tires it won't matter all that much unless you want to drive like a maniac Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxvt Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I did extensive testing in the snow this past weekend. I'd say the BMW's is a bit easier to drive in the snow than my LGT or 2.5RS. This is because the computer sorts everything out for you. You will maintain momentum and your intended path easier in the BMW. The LGT has every bit as much traction though, it seems like. The 2.5rs would not make it up an icy driveway that the LGT had no problem with. By the way, SUBIE AWD has about 5 versions sold today, and BMW has about 3 within the past 4 years. and 99% of what you will read is internet forum opinion riddled with misinformation.... let that commence ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 BMW also has Stability Control Only a few newer subies do My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 If you drive like a maniac the Suby is better... When I was in Buffalo NY me and the local Suby crew would go out and find large expanses of open parking lot DURING a snow storm. Accelerate up to 60-70 pitch it into a corner and with absolute consistency drift a 100 yard arc by feathering the throttle controlling the wheel spin and counter steering. With a little practice one could drift perfect doughnuts around stationary objects with ample throttle application and counter steering. INSANE amounts of fun. And once you get a few hours of practice on the snow with the symmetrical AWD its perfectly repeatable. However if you drive normally all the electronics in the BMW tend to sort things out in a boring way. Probably better for the average driver. If you turn them off the nature of the AWD is not as good as the Suby and will not lend itself to controlled high speed shenanigans. Example: Not my video, but one of my favorites. Love the symmetrical AWD and how gracefully it moves with all 4 wheels throwing snow... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdNoKOGES0Q]YouTube - Subaru WRX snow drift[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Another [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdBgS32UrME]YouTube - Flaine and Impreza WRX[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunra Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 By the way, SUBIE AWD has about 5 versions sold today, and BMW has about 3 within the past 4 years. OK, I was thinking the Spec B specifically. I have an '09. I'm driving the Spec this winter and it's been very good for me. Lots of snow, ice and hills here and have had great control. I used to have a bimmer 325, not xDrive though and it was a disaster up here, that's why I got the Spec. Both cars had winter tires. But was wondering if an xDrive would have been OK in the end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 But was wondering if an xDrive would have been OK in the end... Absolutely... Unless you want to start trouble with the mall cops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunra Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxvt Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 If you drive like a maniac the Suby is better... When I was in Buffalo NY me and the local Suby crew would go out and find large expanses of open parking lot DURING a snow storm. Accelerate up to 60-70 pitch it into a corner and with absolute consistency drift a 100 yard arc by feathering the throttle controlling the wheel spin and counter steering. With a little practice one could drift perfect doughnuts around stationary objects with ample throttle application and counter steering. INSANE amounts of fun. And once you get a few hours of practice on the snow with the symmetrical AWD its perfectly repeatable. However if you drive normally all the electronics in the BMW tend to sort things out in a boring way. Probably better for the average driver. If you turn them off the nature of the AWD is not as good as the Suby and will not lend itself to controlled high speed shenanigans. Example: Not my video, but one of my favorites. Love the symmetrical AWD and how gracefully it moves with all 4 wheels throwing snow... I definitely think you have valid points there. Thankfully, the dsc on the bmw isn't too overbearing, and it has a mid-grade intervention mode (DTC) that lets you play around quite a bit before it tries to straighten you out. I haven't tried everything on "off" as much because I'm trying to avoid running my new car into a curb or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunra Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 If you drive like a maniac the Suby is better... That's some great driving, what fun! I'd be a little nervous about that river ice though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 You want to see good controlled snow driving, check this guy out.. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic6Cp6BMH6I]YouTube - Snowdrift Subaru Legacy[/ame] EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzard60 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 You want to see good controlled snow driving, check this guy out.. YouTube - Snowdrift Subaru Legacy ^ I know it's not YOUR vid, but someone tell that guy to put that camera on an effing tripod... Why is it so hard to do that?!?!?! Great driving though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxvt Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 ^now that is pretty ballsy [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA5jkzQZ8h8]YouTube - BMW 335xi Coupe snow fun day[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I saw a 335i on pass time last night, none of those drag guys had a clue what his bimmer even was, they asked what mods he had and he said software, they pretty much marked him down for a 15 second pass. He went a 12.61 at 113mph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTGT Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 ^That is great JuiceBox3 FTW. Supposed to be around 360-380 WHP depending on dyno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 A catch with too much traction control and stability control is that it can hide the conditions from the driver too much and suddenly the driver finds that the road turns but the car doesn't. You can't override friction with electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttlejockey Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 ^now that is pretty ballsy Is it me or does that car look really heavy the way it moves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 ^That is great JuiceBox3 FTW. Supposed to be around 360-380 WHP depending on dyno. Passtimes 335i was a JB2R(I don't know why he was running a race gas tune on pump gas) and 110 MPH 1/4.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 The one i saw was a 113mph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxvt Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Is it me or does that car look really heavy the way it moves? I'm not sure- maybe he has all the stability stuff on or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 The one i saw was a 113mph If it was this guy: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/RedBarron007/Picks%20I%20took%20of%20random%20things/DSC_0608.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/RedBarron007/Picks%20I%20took%20of%20random%20things/DSC_0611.jpg It was 110 MPH and he posts on N54tech.com and E90post.com as Trill335;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I cant see those pics at work, but it was some black dude in a silver 335i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I cant see those pics at work, but it was some black dude in a silver 335i That sounds like the guy. Unless there was another similar guy that ran on passtimes:confused: Anyways, 12.61@110MPH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I could have sworn they put up 113mph and i damn sure know that 300zx non turbo stock he was up against didnt run a 113mph lol. Well still a good time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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