Brake Pads for track day / daily use

Guys,

I am going to be at Road Atlanta for a 2 day track session with Panoz in March. I am trying to figure out what to do for pads. I dont mind spending some money on racing pads, but I am way too lazy to switch em out for track days and daily driving. I have read Keefe's brake thread, but I am still not sure what direction to take. Panoz estimates 5 hours of track time over 2 days, so what will keep me out of a wall and allow me to drive the car back to Florida after the weekend? I was looking at the various Endless options.

If possible, I would like to be able to continue to use the pads daily after the track event.

 

Help!

Bobcats here..... have abused them pretty good @ times & have had no problems.

Don't have first-hand experience, but hearing good things about Endless SS pads.

Bobcats for real light track duty only. I have em, like em, but would not recommend for the track, maybe autocross.

Bobcats for real light track duty only. I have em, like em, but would not recommend for the track, maybe autocross.

How 'bout Panther Plus front/Bobcat rear?

Like most treet cars, the brakes on a Legacy Gt are just not up to sustained road course duty - no matter what pads you install. Your best bet is to install the best pads you can find, replace the brake fluid with super high temp stuff, and adjust your expectations. Driving 9/10ths on the track, you will start experiencing brake fade and sponginess after only a few laps. At the fist sign of deterioration, back off for a few laps until the brakes feel better. Near the end of each session, take it really easy for a couple of laps befor pulling into the pits. Never just stop the car when the brakes are hot. With a little attention and restraint, you can make it through the weekend and drive the car home.

Like most treet cars, the brakes on a Legacy Gt are just not up to sustained road course duty - no matter what pads you install. Your best bet is to install the best pads you can find, replace the brake fluid with super high temp stuff, and adjust your expectations. Driving 9/10ths on the track, you will start experiencing brake fade and sponginess after only a few laps. At the fist sign of deterioration, back off for a few laps until the brakes feel better. Near the end of each session, take it really easy for a couple of laps befor pulling into the pits. Never just stop the car when the brakes are hot. With a little attention and restraint, you can make it through the weekend and drive the car home.

You might search about this before you post. The people that have tracked the Legacy have not had as many problems as you propose. Especially when upgraded with pads and fluid...

The brakes on the Legacy are not undersized.

Ted

Guys,

I am going to be at Road Atlanta for a 2 day track session with Panoz in March. I am trying to figure out what to do for pads. I dont mind spending some money on racing pads, but I am way too lazy to switch em out for track days and daily driving. I have read Keefe's brake thread, but I am still not sure what direction to take. Panoz estimates 5 hours of track time over 2 days, so what will keep me out of a wall and allow me to drive the car back to Florida after the weekend? I was looking at the various Endless options.

If possible, I would like to be able to continue to use the pads daily after the track event.

 

Help!

 

Endless SSM or any other pad that has a temp range of 30F to 1000F (since you need a good working temp for street use). SS-Ms are also dust free I have tracked my SS-Ms for 4~5 events of which I spend about 1 to 2 hours each day on the track. Road Atlanta isn't THAT demanding on your brakes as I remember.. if you modulate your braking, you can make them last a long time on the track for 5 hours in 2 days (2.5 hr/day which is a little bit more than me).

 

The Bobcats can manage, but I think they actually go soft and glaze faster than the SS-Ms (especially on a heavier car). Id opt SS-M due to three things:

No brake dust, good durability, minor fading when it does fade (from overbraking)

 

Down side is the price of the brakes compared to the Bobcats.

Bobcats for real light track duty only. I have em, like em, but would not recommend for the track, maybe autocross.

 

+1, it might be already at +70F when march rolls around for Atlanta by then which isnt cold enough for the Bobcats to stay cool and within the operating temps.

Like most treet cars, the brakes on a Legacy Gt are just not up to sustained road course duty - no matter what pads you install. Your best bet is to install the best pads you can find, replace the brake fluid with super high temp stuff, and adjust your expectations. Driving 9/10ths on the track, you will start experiencing brake fade and sponginess after only a few laps. At the fist sign of deterioration, back off for a few laps until the brakes feel better. Near the end of each session, take it really easy for a couple of laps befor pulling into the pits. Never just stop the car when the brakes are hot. With a little attention and restraint, you can make it through the weekend and drive the car home.

 

Heh, I ran with the stock pads on the track before, it's not THAT bad, just dont expect the Hand-of-God to come out and stop your car. You should be aware of the changes as you drive your car, so adjust accordingly and back off when you feel the inconsistencies start to show, that also applies to your tires.. if the car isn't gripping, slow down for the next corner until the tire has a chance to settle..

 

I dont think anyone should be driving 9/10ths at the track for practice, even DURING a race, you hold yourself to 9/10ths or 10/10ths.. (as 11/10ths is for qualifying trials). No one should be pushing the car that hard, especially without a roll cage..

 

For a track day, just have fun and driving even at 7/10ths to 8/10ths is more than plenty. According to my scale, driving 2/10ths to 3/10ths on the public roads is more than plenty

Too bad they don't make Ferodo 2500 pads to fit the LGT. They were the perfect street/track pad for my STi. <sigh>. I went with the SPT performance pads. Haven't put them on yet as I'm waiting for spring when I put some knew rims on at the same time.

Too bad they don't make Ferodo 2500 pads to fit the LGT. They were the perfect street/track pad for my STi. <sigh>. I went with the SPT performance pads. Haven't put them on yet as I'm waiting for spring when I put some knew rims on at the same time.

 

 

I have them! Although I have STI Brembo's!

SSM's looked like the way to go when I was researching. Should I go ahead and do all 4?

SSM's looked like the way to go when I was researching. Should I go ahead and do all 4?

 

Seriously, you don't need SSM's on the rear, you can easily save $75 and go with SSS's....I'm inclined to try the SSM's out next go around, although I'm really happy with my ds2500's, they do dust, and Xenonk keeps raving about the low dusting of the SSM's......

It looks like Satisfied Motorsports has released a couple new 05+ LGT fitments. They now have both the GS5 and GS6 compounds to fit our cars. The GS6 is a performance street pad and the GS5 is a street/light track pad. I read somewhere else that compared to Hawk pads that the GS5 ~ to Hawk HP+ and the GS6 ~ to Hawk HPS. I might be looking in to the GS5 myself, as a street biased, but still trackable pad.

 

Here's Satisfied's decription of the GS5:

 

The top performer in our Carbon-Ceramic friction line, GS5 is a flawless choice for street performance and amateur racing enthusiasts. Delivering a friction coefficient up to 0.49 in an operating temperature range of 100 – 850°F, GS5 generates medium to high torque and virtually flat-line output for consistent, linear stopping power, power, hot or cold.

 

GS5 is the ideal crossover compound for street use and weekend track racing...no need to change from one pad to another. It is rotor friendly while generating less dust and noise than comparable materials in the marketplace and delivers stopping performance beyond your experience to date.

 

GS5 offers smooth, safe braking and overall comfort in a high performance brake pad. Advanced ceramic compound technology, along with shims, slots, chamfers and “Race-Grid” friction attachment, provide uncompromised performance for race-inspired Sport Compacts, Muscle Cars, Luxury Sedans and Sport Trucks while allowing for worry-free operation in passenger cars, light trucks, commercial vehicles, SUV's and mini vans.

 

SSM's looked like the way to go when I was researching. Should I go ahead and do all 4?

 

You might as well and get an overall upgrade on all four corners.. keeps your wheels clean and your rears will last a good 60,000 miles.. the fronts may last 30k to 40k miles depending on how hard you brake.. the GT brakes are VERY biased to the front, more than usual for a car.

Seriously, you don't need SSM's on the rear, you can easily save $75 and go with SSS's....I'm inclined to try the SSM's out next go around, although I'm really happy with my ds2500's, they do dust, and Xenonk keeps raving about the low dusting of the SSM's......

 

literally, no dust.. after going with SS-M, I dont even feel like trying on the SS-S or SS-Y just because I am soo happy with the durability, extremely low-dusting and wide temperature range.. granted the SS-M are slightly less bite, but that's fine because I can modulate the brakes better, make them last longer by not needing to be riding on the brakes or overbraking, and actually use less of the time on the brakes because they are easy enough to find the right amount of braking needed.

 

Sometimes too aggressive of a pad (especially in high performance driving) you can over-brake a corner.. and you'll know when you do when you say too yourself "oops, I hit the brakes too early and now I gotta accelerate more to get to the turn-in" because the brakes have such a high bite, tossing the car forward, and making you mess up the entry of a turn... good brakes, but harder to feel for the right amount.

Here's Satisfied's decription of the GS5:

 

The top performer in our Carbon-Ceramic friction line, GS5 is a flawless choice for street performance and amateur racing enthusiasts. Delivering a friction coefficient up to 0.49 in an operating temperature range of 100 – 850°F, GS5 generates medium to high torque and virtually flat-line output for consistent, linear stopping power, power, hot or cold.

 

The Endless SS-Y operates from 30°F to 720°F with a friction coefficient range of 0.38 to 0.48 and is more comparable to the GS5.

 

The Endless SS-M operates from 35°F to 990°F with a friction coefficient range of 0.3 to 0.4 for easy modulation

 

http://www.endlessusa.com/products/categories/subico5.jpghttp://www.endlessusa.com/products/categories/subico3.jpg

 

 

 

Here is the charts for the SS-S (comparable to the HP+) and CC-X (comparable to the Ferodo DS 2500)..

 

http://www.endlessusa.com/products/categories/subico4.jpghttp://www.endlessusa.com/products/categories/subico7.jpg

 

 

 

And for kicks, Endless has pads that are comparable to Carbotech's XP10 and XP8:

http://www.carbotecheng.com/prod-ct-compounds.htm

vs:

http://www.endlessusa.com/products/categories/subico2.jpghttp://www.endlessusa.com/products/categories/subico1.jpg

 

I went with Carbotech pads over Endless for the dedicated track pad namely I can get the Carbotechs easier and cost less.

I'd say the GS5 is probably more similar to the Endless SS-S, but that's probably splitting hairs. While the MSRP price is similar to the street price of the Endless pads, I think the usual street price on the Satisfied pads is a lot less, hence my interest. I figure they will run aorund $80-85 front and $70-75 rear, a heck of a lot less money than the Endless pads.

the Endless pads are lasting me at 30k miles up front with about 500 miles worth of track days and 2 seasons worth of autocrossing (which is about 20 to 25 events which some are co-driven) and the rears are still going at 35,000+ miles now worn only half way..

 

that's just another reason why I went with the SS-M.. they last for a long time for this kind of beating and amount of miles.

quest, it's not too terribly difficult to change pads... I would recommend going all the way and putting the right equipment on for the job, not a compromise.

 

Get some Carbotech XP9s if youre running street tires or XP10-11 if youre running R-comps.

 

Remember... right equipment for the job You wouldnt run summer tires in the snow and you prolly wouldnt run snow tires at the track either... sure they'd "work"... but not very well for the application.

the Endless pads are lasting me at 30k miles up front with about 500 miles worth of track days and 2 seasons worth of autocrossing (which is about 20 to 25 events which some are co-driven) and the rears are still going at 35,000+ miles now worn only half way..

 

that's just another reason why I went with the SS-M.. they last for a long time for this kind of beating and amount of miles.

 

I've got a set of Endless SS-Ms, new in box, that I'm selling for $400 plus shipping. PM me if you want them.

^ Racecomp has a set waiting for me, I'll let you know when I need another set, thanks

I'm running Bobcat rear / Panther+ front too - awesome stopping power at the track. Bobcats in the front couldn't cut it. Downside is Panthers are too noisy for street use and eat your rotors.

I'm running Bobcat rear / Panther+ front too - awesome stopping power at the track. Bobcats in the front couldn't cut it. Downside is Panthers are too noisy for street use and eat your rotors.

 

Panther + shouldnt be eating your rotors.... are you measuring more rotor wear somehow? The optimal operating temp of P+ isnt too far outside that of the Bobcats... now if it was XP11... now that might be wearing your rotors more because it takes longer to heat up to optimum temps....