Shoulda bought the better wastegate

Finally got around to getting a proper tune by my relatively local tuner Sunny, but I didn't think I'd need the upgraded wg from BNR. Definitely wrong on that front, as the car makes significantly less power than jasejase's, and we have an almost identical mod list. Sunny seems to think that the 18g has more lag than it should, but looking at the two graphs they look rather similar until jase's takes off

 

I've attached a 3rd gear pull, just wondering if anything else aside from the wastegate would be causing the lack of power? I'm gonna get a smoke test to see if there's any sort of vacuum leaks. And I don't have a wideband o2 so the AFR stops at 11...

 

Mod list:

BNR 18g

PW TMIC

DW 740

DW 65c

GS ebcs

Cobb up, down and cbe

Kompact bpv

stock airbox with velocity stack

+ suspension stuff

June 27th 3rd pull.csv

I have a similar set up with the bnr 18g, but with the upgraded wastegate. I have the bigger 850 injectors an avo tmic, exedy lwfw and light crank pulley. I only have an E- tune so I can't show a graph. In 3 rd gear, I hit 9 lbs of boost at 3000 rpms and 19.8 at 4000. It also feels laggy compared to a stage 2 tine on the stock turbo. It pulls hard from 4000 to 7000 rpms. Do you know how much boost you are running?

Yeah, 18 psi @ 4000 is the peak and it tapers to 15psi @ 6500. Also, it has a stage 2 comp clutch that I forgot to mention

I looked at your logs. My first question is whether or not the EBCS was hooked up correctly and functioning properly. 78% WGDC on a 3 port and not doesn't seem right to me. I suppose it could be your WG actuator being too weak, but I will note that your WGDC doesn't seem to be going up either which tells me either you are hitting up against your MaxWGDC, or your TD is not functioning correctly....

 

Or your tuner is one of "those" people (the ones I disagree with) who dial in a flat WGDC across the RPM and essentially disables TD....

I don't think Airboy is one of the 'those' people.

 

OP could probably stand to gain from going to a 1bar actuator and getting boost re-tuned. Also check for exhaust leaks pre-turbo.

Ah, did not realize it's Airboy.

 

edit: *inserts foot in own mouth.*

If your tuner runs the dynamics in regular mode, it's a very low reading dyno.

 

Jase's was done in shootout mode, STI's baseline around 240whp (LGT's ~190 if MT) in that mode. I forgot what the baseline in "regular" mode but it is substantially lower.

 

Best thing to do is ask your tuner what a cars stock baseline is for that dyno.

 

That curve looks good though!

You are comparing two different dynos. One that generally reads lower(dyno dynamics) and one that looks like it reads high(dynapack?). Also, a wastegate pretty much has one duty: to hold the flapper shut so your turbo spools. Unless its popping open while making boost, its working just fine.

 

That being said, your 18g looks like it spools as fast as my 3071. Look for pre turbo exhaust leaks.

You are comparing two different dynos. One that generally reads lower(dyno dynamics) and one that looks like it reads high(dynapack?). Also, a wastegate pretty much has one duty: to hold the flapper shut so your turbo spools. Unless its popping open while making boost, its working just fine.

 

That being said, your 18g looks like it spools as fast as my 3071. Look for pre turbo exhaust leaks.

 

 

Jase's was done on a dynamics but in shootout mode

Jase's was done on a dynamics but in shootout mode

 

What is shootout mode and why does it read considerably higher?

 

And guys, you're forgetting that Jase's car is a Spec B.

 

/thread.

 

Actually, I took it upon myself to load the run the OP provided into Virtual Dyno. The VD numbers and graph are very close to what the actual dyno numbers show. If you want to compare Jase's numbers via dyno, perhaps we can get a 3rd gear pull of his vehicle and load it to VD. IMHO, something is holding this particular vehicle back. These numbers are typical of a well tuned STG2 LGT, but 300+ WHP should be easily attainable even on a conservative tune with these mods.

http://xspeed.powweb.com/tech_features.php?tech_id=19

 

 

Anyways, OP get what a stock one puts down?

 

Dynos are a tuning tool, the delta and the curve is what's important.

http://xspeed.powweb.com/tech_features.php?tech_id=19

 

 

Anyways, OP get what a stock one puts down?

 

Dynos are a tuning tool, the delta and the curve is what's important.

 

I get that and I can appreciate a low reading dyno, but I don't think that's what's going on here.

 

BTW, thanks for the link as it was actually a good read, but it only explained that Shootout mode is basically a standard, and had nothing to do with why it would read so much higher than other dynos. You've alluded to the idea that shootout mode is a major contributor to the differences in numbers. Personally, I think VD running Dynojet mode is a high reading dyno and I've shown that it was pretty close to the actual dyno numbers provided in the OP. Do you disagree with my observation that something is holding this back?

Well, his log shows him only making 18.32 psi briefly at 4K... whereas the other dyno he posted says it's 19.5 psi. The other one is also keeping torque to redline a lot better so.... 175 ft-lbs @ 6500 vs 275 ft-lbs @ 6500. I dunno, maybe look at the boost figures.

 

OP, I think you should ask airboy (your tuner) about this.

^Exactly. That second graph (Jase's) looks more in line with where this turbo should be. Perhaps that's a little bit more of a high reading dyno, but nowhere near this kind of difference.

Doesn't look like Sunny has any Legacy baselines, but here's a whole bunch of other stock cars on his dyno. Other things to keep in mind is that the dyno is in Calgary, which is 3500' asl and it was 87 F out when he was tuning my car. Neither of which helps me any

 

Is anyone good with photoshop and could overlay the graphs to see exactly how much worse mine is spooling? And does this seem like the best way to find pre-turbo leaks?

I felt like I should be in this thread for some reason.

I was wondering if you'd see this thread considering your build was the goal for my dad's car hahaha

Your dad sounds pretty damn cool

 

Sounds like you may have a bit of dyno comparison issues... I mean, you could have a mechanical issue, but...

 

How's it feel?

Jase, do you have a clean 3rd gear pull? I'm interested in comparing them.

uhhhhhh... yeah, somewhere. Work laptop perhaps. Standby

I believe this is from this past February... about 11 months after my tune. Sent it to Bren, and he agreed that it looked good.

 

datalog1(1) feb 2013 bren.csv

Hmm, the VD doesn't have the Spec B in it's profile list. Strange. Maybe my VD isn't up-to-date.

 

Otherwise, I can't tell much from that log. Load is higher, but that can be relative. There's a big gap in the sample from 2600 rpm to 3800 rpm. It's throwing me off. Let me look into this.

I do that pull under slight incline. Which would explain the load being higher.

 

I haven't read through this thread completely to be honest. Busy busy

Keep in mind, the car definitely has more lag. You have to relearn how to drive a little bit, keeping it at higher RPMs.

 

In regards to the dyno comparisons, The first thing that I would do is to look for boost and/or exhaust leaks. It seems to be falling off too quickly.

 

Did you do a boost leak test after the build? You should. Lots of pieces, parts, and room for error.

My dyno is also from the same Bren Tuning dyno on my Outback XT. Put down similar numbers to JaseJase. My boost targets were the same and I made within +/- 3 hp of Jasejase. The 18G is going to lag noticeably more than the factory turbo. Its noticeable and everytime I step on it from 3k I think about it. Once it spools its all grins though! I often wonder how much better a 16G would be in the lag department in everyday life but I'm 100% satisfied with both my Bren Tune and my BNR 18G.

 

Short of a mechanical issue (Boost leak) its probably just the tune. My EFI tune vs my Bren Tune is night and day both on paper and in the drivers seat. The car was run for a baseline and it was within 3hp of my EFI dyno plot.

 

Check for a mechanical issue and then revisit the tune.