Mystery Problem with Transmission/Clutch

I had a strange problem develop with my transmission/clutch yesterday. I have no idea what is causing it, so I thought I would ask here.

 

Car: 2005 Outback XT 5MT with CM FX300 for the last 3000 miles.

 

Bullet Point Summary:

1. Intermittent shifting issue with 5MT. Not consistently reproducible. Clutch reservoir full. Pedal feels normal. Nothing obvious to me.

2. Unable to shift into any gear with engine on. No grinding or noise.

3. Able to put in gear with engine off.

4. Able to start in gear with clutch-engaged, but lurches momentarily, followed by "thud" sound and a mild burnt smell. Then works like normal for an indeterminate amount of time.

 

Long explanation and story of what happened and what I've tried so far, so bear with me.

 

I drove up to Breckenridge to ski yesterday in some wonderfully snowy weather. I left the parking lot at the end of the day without issue to get into a turn lane in Breckenridge, CO. When the light turned green, I could not get it into 1st gear or ANY gear. No grinding, no noises, just unable to physically move the shifter into a gear. I shut it off and was was able to get it into all gears at that point. I restarted it and tried to put it into 1st gear again, but it would not go. At that point, I tried starting it in 1st gear with the clutch engaged. That worked, except that the car lurched with the starter, so I flipped the key off immediately. I put it in reverse to see what would happen and tried to start it again with the clutch in. It gave a very slight lurch and a very mile "thud" and then the car idled normally and I was able to use the gearbox again and drive to a gas station. It also started giving off a burnt clutch smell at that point.

 

At the gas station, I inspected the clutch reservoir, pumped the clutch and generally looked around the car as best as I could to see if there was anything obviously wrong. Everything seemed fine, but when I went to drive away, it did the same thing. I did the in-gear-start again, which worked with the same slight lurch, "thud", and burnt smell, and then it worked fine. I drove several miles through some stop lights without issue, got onto I70, and drove for 30 miles without any shifting issues. However down a long hill, I tried to downshift to save the brakes, but could not get it into any gear after taking it out of 5th. So, I had to pull over, do the in-gear-start again and then it worked fine for the rest of the day.

 

When I got back to Denver, I drove around for a while to see what would happen, but it worked fine without anything weird or unusual. After letting it sit overnight, I drove around the city for most of the day without any problems. However, on the drive home, it did the same thing again.

 

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions, assistance, warnings, etc?

I hear crickets chirping in the silence.

I've been researching this problem for a little while now tonight, and everything I'm reading points to a problem with your clutch springs or the area around the springs. Either a broken spring, malfunctioning springs, or a problem with the plate around the springs. So unfortunately, it sounds like you will need to take everything apart, and at least replace the disc.

 

Just one of the many threads I've read tonight

 

http://forums.subdriven.com/showthread.php?5504548-Wont-shift-into-gear-%28engine-running%29.-GT28RS-with-Clutchmasters-FX300-after-just-2.5k-miles...

 

*Just re-read my post and wanted to add that one of the springs on the disc could've popped out as well and is now trapped, causing the problems

Thanks, apexi. Seems like you did a lot of research on my behalf. I was baffled because I have never encountered a problem quite like this.

 

Wow, that link is quite a find. That sounds oddly similar. His problem even happened at similar miileage. There must be a manufacturing defect with the Clutchmaster FX300. My clutch is relatively new and I'm not putting down monster power. Seems suspicious.

Assuming it is the same issue, I'm a little gunshy of putting another FX300. I'm not too keen on putting a stock clutch in either, unless others say it's a good option. Any recommendations for alternatives?

Not to get ahead of myself before getting it taken apart, but has anyone on these forums had a FX300 failure?

Make sure the slave cylinder is on the housing tightly and the clutch fork is positioned correctly.

 

The fork may be going bad.

Make sure the slave cylinder is on the housing tightly and the clutch fork is positioned correctly.

 

The fork may be going bad.

 

Clutch fork was my first thought too so that would be the thing I would check and is simple to get to. Only need to take off the IC to inspect.

If it was the clutch fork though wouldn't he still have problems when the car is shut off? Serious question, my knowledge of how manual transmissions work is limited.

If it was the clutch fork though wouldn't he still have problems when the car is shut off? Serious question, my knowledge of how manual transmissions work is limited.

 

That was my thought. I'm going to leave it with my mechanic, so nothing is ruled out and we'll figure it out. However, if the forks were going bad, why would it be problem-free for a day and then happen again? I also don't know how forks would cause the clutch plate to be left engaged and lurch the car and cause a burning smell when starting the car in gear. I will cross my fingers that it's somehow something simple.

Well, I'm debating whether or not to order an Exedy clutch in anticipation of changing the clutch. I'm going to be out of town Fri-Wed, so I'm planning on leaving the car with my mechanic.

The transmission has been shifting fine since yesterday without any issues. That is bitter-sweet since I swung over to my mechanic's place to give him an idea of what's wrong.

Personally I would order one to have one on hand just in case. I would try to buy it from somewhere with a good return policy, no restocking fee or anything in case your clutch is fine and you need to return it. You'll probably have to pay return shipping if that happens, but a small price to pay in my opinion for the convenience of having it on hand and ready to install if needed.

You make a good point. I might order one through Amazon.

 

My clutch has been operating like normal for three days now. I'm not sure how to explain that. I think I'm going to hold off on taking it in until it happens again.

 

Could it be possible for some foreign body to find it's way inbetween the clutch and pressure? Having something roll around and occasionally get lodged/dislodged is the only way I can explain the intermittent behavior.

It seems like this is an unusual situation that no one else on here has experienced, but I thought I would ask anyway. Is it a good idea to just "wait and see" if the problem comes back, or go ahead and replace the clutch? Is it going to work fine and then leave me stranded one day when I'm deep in the woods?

Like you, I'm interested to hear others opinions on what the problem could be. After doing additional research, it seems that another possibility is that the clutch disc could've temporarily fused itself to the flywheel. I think that this is likely what happened since you don't seem to be having problems anymore. I'm reading this can happen when the clutch gets too hot, and it sounds like that might've been the case with your clutch since you said you could smell burnt clutch. From pictures I've seen, this can do damage to the disc itself. I don't know how harmful the damage to the disc can be, I haven't researched that yet. I also haven't read enough to know if this is at all bad for the flywheel either. But I just wanted to throw this out there because like i said earlier, I really think this is what happened now that everything seems fine.

 

I'm wondering if the "thud" you heard was the sound of the clutch disc releasing itself from the flywheel, followed by the burnt smell because the hot side that had been stuck was now exposed. But it's strange that this sounds like it happened right after you left and hadn't done much driving. Unless you were driving in a manner that got the disc really hot, and maybe since the car had been sitting the flywheel was really cold, and that combination caused the two to fuse together? I don't know, just throwing out some random thoughts.

Hey, I'm all ears for any theories that may have an impact on how I deal with this.

 

I was wondering about clutch welding also, but I wasn't sure if it could recur again and again. When it first happened, the temp was around zero degrees F and I had driven about 200 yards to a stop light without any shifting problems up to that point. The shifting difficulty happened several more times on the way back to Denver (much warmer) and then once the next day in Denver. Since then, it has operated just fine.

 

I don't know enough about transmission/clutch mechanics to make a solid diagnosis, but here is my theory to of something that could match the symptoms. Some foreign body (nut, washer, who knows?) worked its way into the housing or was left in somehow or chipped off the clutch. That little flat piece bounced around and got lodged between the clutch and pressure plate or flywheel like a pebble in your shoe. It had enough pressure/friction to stick in place and prevent shifting. However, when the engine started with the gear engaged, the sheer lateral forces scraped it and rolled it around between plates for an instant, which gave a little lurch and burnt a little clutch, but dislodged it for a while.

That still doesn't explain to me why I could engage the gear with the engine off if the piece was still stuck between plates, but it's an idea. Does this seem plausible?

 

I'm at a confusing crossroads. The catch 22 is that I'd like to try and figure out what happened from symptoms so that I know whether it's going to come back and whether or not it's something that requires removing the transmission. Unfortunately, I can't really know what it is for sure and whether it's serious unless I remove the transmission.

Unfortunately, I am resurrecting this. My transmission was working fine for a month and a half..... until now. As I was parking it last night, it wouldn't stop even with the clutch pushed in and it killed the engine. This morning when I went to start it, it was stuck in gear and started with car moving. After that I was unable to get it out of gear back to neutral.

 

It looks like I'm having it towed to my mechanic. I'm just hoping that it didn't strip teeth and ruin other components when it started in gear.

I'm guessing TOB fork is the issue.

Well, we got the FX300 out. The fork actually looked pretty good. My mechanic checks those every time he pulls a transmission (as he did when installing the clutch).

 

It looks as though the pressure plate that came with the clutch was applying uneven pressure, which is why there were prolonged off/on problems. I'm trying to RMA the clutch with Clutch Masters at the moment. We'll see how that goes.

Good Luck, from my limited knowledge, I agree the PP is not hitting the clutch evenly.

 

 

Oh have the guy grease the starter shaft before he puts it back in.

That's what my mechanic told me. Sort of an odd problem for the pressure plate to be out of true like that.

 

I'm just hoping that Clutch Masters replace it within a reasonable time frame. That's my only vehicle at the moment, which is very inconvenient. Unfortunately, I'm being relocated at the end of the month, so I have a narrow time frame, which is complicated by not having my car beforehand.

Have you call CM and ask them what to do and what they will do for you ?

I called CM and they asked me to ship it back to them. The guy on the phone seemed sort of abrupt and busy, similar to emails, so I got a vague response as to what the follow-up plan is. He did email an address with a RA number, so that seems good. In any case, the clutch should arrive with CM this afternoon. According to tracking, it's out for delivery as we speak.

 

I'm just hoping that they RMA it and send a replacement out ASAP because I'm borrowing a minivan for the week and it will need to be returned. Besides that, I just miss my car. I already have the flywheel machined (again) and ready to go for the re-installation. Right now I'm crossing my fingers that things go smoothly and swiftly

I hope they will stand behind their product. FWIW, we had a wear issue with a Exedy clutch years ago. When we told a Exedy Rep at one of the drag races we were at about it.

 

He asked a few questions, found out they sent us a racing clutch not a meant for a street car which the car was at that time. He gave us his card and said call him on Monday, we had a new clutch a few day's later.

 

I would like to think most of these manufactures understand that even they can make mistakes sometimes.

I'm getting a little frustrated. My old clutch arrived at CM's facility last Friday morning with my RA number plastered in several places on the box and with delivery confirmation, requiring that someone sign for it to accept ..... so someone signed for it. I paid extra to expedite it so that I could get this taken care of quickly, which seems like it was a waste of money. I called CM Monday to see what they planned to do, but the individual in charge of RMA's wasn't aware that it had arrived and he wasn't able to locate it. After leaving several phone and email messages, I haven't heard back.

 

Meanwhile, my car is taking up space at a shop without a transmission for over a week while I rearrange my schedule so that I don't have any appointments and don't have to commute beyond biking distance. My flywheel was sent off for resurfacing and arrived back last Thursday, so now I wait.

 

A courtesy reply or update from CM would be great.