Poor performance in snow and ice

OK, this is my first AWD vehicle, so I don't have much for a point of reference. I've only previously owned 1 front wheel drive Nissan Sentra and 2 Honda Accords. I've also driven a 4 wheel drive truck for a month in moderate snow and ice. I've lived in MN my whole life, and have driven through 16 winters, so I have some experience in this department.

 

We've had very bad road conditions here in the arctic tundra for a few weeks now. So far, I'm severely disappointed in the performance. Honestly, I don't feel safe at all; my previous vehicles (which were by no means good winter cars) performed better than this to my recollection. I fish-tail like crazy, while seemingly nobody else in non-AWD vehicles have the same issue navigating the same turns. When I park on the street where the snow is not quite plowed to the curb, I can barely get out of my parking spot. I've almost slid into near-by parked cars several times trying to get out (and I know how to gently nudge a car out of this situation having lived in the city for many years).

 

What is going on here? It definitely eats gas like the AWD is working, but I don't seem to be getting any of the benefits. Before the snow hit, I seemed to get very good handling on dry pavement. The tires are brand new Yokohamas.

 

I'm going to take it in as I have some warranty left, but has anyone else experienced similar issues?

What tires do you have on the car?

OK, this is my first AWD vehicle, so I don't have much for a point of reference. I've only previously owned 1 front wheel drive Nissan Sentra and 2 Honda Accords. I've also driven a 4 wheel drive truck for a month in moderate snow and ice. I've lived in MN my whole life, and have driven through 16 winters, so I have some experience in this department.

 

We've had very bad road conditions here in the arctic tundra for a few weeks now. So far, I'm severely disappointed in the performance. Honestly, I don't feel safe at all; my previous vehicles (which were by no means good winter cars) performed better than this to my recollection. I fish-tail like crazy, while seemingly nobody else in non-AWD vehicles have the same issue navigating the same turns. When I park on the street where the snow is not quite plowed to the curb, I can barely get out of my parking spot. I've almost slid into near-by parked cars several times trying to get out (and I know how to gently nudge a car out of this situation having lived in the city for many years).

 

What is going on here? It definitely eats gas like the AWD is working, but I don't seem to be getting any of the benefits. Before the snow hit, I seemed to get very good handling on dry pavement. The tires are brand new Yokohamas.

 

I'm going to take it in as I have some warranty left, but has anyone else experienced similar issues?

 

 

hi i live in MPLS MN.... i drive a 05 legacy gt.... 5eat... i have all season tire.... and i dont have any issue in snow....to tell u the true im loving the snow.......and you should join mnsubaru.com this is where you can get locate help on subaru...

Maybe it's the new tire issue like in the 2010 LGT thread.

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126688

All I know is I have been routinely driving through un-plowed 15" of snow with no hint of trouble. I've also been through 3 foot snow drifts... AND I've had my car plowed in when they go by and I still get out without issue. I realize it's a different car, but my point is this: Pretty sure it's your tires.

 

My dad's Audi (quattro) has some crappy tires on it at the moment and his car has a LOT of trouble even on plowed but still snowy roads. And this is compared to the last set of expensive all-seasons he had on that were so good you could be driving on snow and it felt like you were on pavement that's how much grip there was. Tire make ALL the difference.

without knowing your tires, i would say you need some good snow tires. if you dont have good snow tires on its like saying these winter tires suck at laguna seca.

 

aka "not what they are ment for"

 

lol

Tires are a HUGE factor. They are your only contact patch with the road. I think it's time for a good set, not the stock crap.

 

Also, do you have the 5MT or 4EAT. The 4EAT uses a crappy "AWD" system. It functions like a Haldex system in the sense it has a 90:10 split until there is slippage, then can only send up to 30% of torque to the rear. The 5MT uses a 50:50 split with a center and rear LSD (the 2.5i with 5MT does use a viscous in the rear, correct?)

Another post here seconding the tire thing. I used worn all seasons though a madison winter and had no issues.

 

Now I have snow tires and I treat everything like a rally course.

 

As for the sliding more than you would usually, awd means you should be willing to stay on the gas if you start sliding. Not that you should be, but...

Tires are a HUGE factor. They are your only contact patch with the road. I think it's time for a good set, not the stock crap.

 

Also, do you have the 5MT or 4EAT. The 4EAT uses a crappy "AWD" system. It functions like a Haldex system in the sense it has a 90:10 split until there is slippage, then can only send up to 30% of torque to the rear. The 5MT uses a 50:50 split with a center and rear LSD (the 2.5i with 5MT does use a viscous in the rear, correct?)

 

We have an open rear diff. This makes me cry a little inside.

Yep, it's the tires all right. I was mistaken on the make. They are not Yokohama's but are in fact Kumho ECSTA SPT's, which I just looked up and are not intended to be used in snow. I bought the car used, and the original owner was registered in Florida, so this makes sense.

 

Of course the dealer spouted the new tires as a selling point, and I never even thought to look at what they actually were. In my neck of the woods these are useless, I would have been better off with a set of spares and the AWD fuse set to off. I suppose I'll keep them around for summer, but I was hoping to not have to drop cash for tires for quite awhile.

 

I should have thought of this when I bought the car, or at least before posting this thread, but live and learn I guess.

 

Thanks for the heads up!

Tires are a HUGE factor. They are your only contact patch with the road. I think it's time for a good set, not the stock crap.

 

Also, do you have the 5MT or 4EAT. The 4EAT uses a crappy "AWD" system. It functions like a Haldex system in the sense it has a 90:10 split until there is slippage, then can only send up to 30% of torque to the rear. The 5MT uses a 50:50 split with a center and rear LSD (the 2.5i with 5MT does use a viscous in the rear, correct?)

 

It's the 4 EAT unfortunately. I looked for a 5MT but it was sold out from under me on my way into test drive it. Hopefully replacing the tires will still help significantly. I would hope that even with the auto, I would perform better than a Sentra or Accord in the snow.

my family owns a 2009 2.5i SE 4EAT as well. this past friday the car fishtailed and was in an accident. tires are also Yokohama Advan A82's. I looked them up, they are crappy in snow which contributed to the car loosing control on light snow. 7 thousand dollar bill on the car now. and a 27 day wait. awesome subaru. So i'm with you on the crappy stock tires. too bad the car is a lease, so we aren't planning on replacing the tires. Just driving it less.

There are couple of all season tires out there at TireRack that might save you just through out the winter.

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp?make=Sumitomo&model=HTR%2B

 

I went with these because my Winter Sets blew out on me and had to get all 4 new tires.

I won't say it's the best thing on earth but price is good, and it can be better than the summer tires.

if you want great "real" winter tires for cheap look into Firestone winterforce tires. stock size is like $77 and they are great in the winter and have very decent tread wear

We put Michelin Primacy MXV4's on my wife's Outback and love them.

 

I see you are in St Paul, we're in Eden Prairie. The Bridgestone Potenza's that came as OE sucked (I don't remember the model) and the Goodyear Triple Treads were great, but wore terrible (yeah I know about alignment and rotating).

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=GTAS

Driving an AWD car in the snow is a skill. I live in MPLS so I'll keep an eye out for you. These cars love to drift. They were born to go sideways.

It's not like a FWD car that just sort of limps along getting pulled by the front wheels. Our cars get going fast and strong on the slippery stuff, which can be disconcerting. One very important thing to remember is that you have NO control unless there is power going to the wheels. When you start to slip, instead of freaking out and applying the breaks, give it more gas. I love the MN winter with my car. I am sideways constantly just like Ken Block.

The reason that you feel unsafe is because...you're not doing it right!

Driving an AWD car in the snow is a skill. I live in MPLS so I'll keep an eye out for you. These cars love to drift. They were born to go sideways.

It's not like a FWD car that just sort of limps along getting pulled by the front wheels. Our cars get going fast and strong on the slippery stuff, which can be disconcerting. One very important thing to remember is that you have NO control unless there is power going to the wheels. When you start to slip, instead of freaking out and applying the breaks, give it more gas. I love the MN winter with my car. I am sideways constantly just like Ken Block.

The reason that you feel unsafe is because...you're not doing it right!

 

Yes I do need to modify my driving style. But I'm still going to replace the tires. The Kumho's on it now are not even supposed to be driven at near freezing temperatures, let alone snow and ice.

 

When I can't get out of my parking spot on the side of the road, there are other issues going on besides my driving style.

Yes I do need to modify my driving style. But I'm still going to replace the tires. The Kumho's on it now are not even supposed to be driven at near freezing temperatures, let alone snow and ice.

 

When I can't get out of my parking spot on the side of the road, there are other issues going on besides my driving style.

 

Yup, when you're getting stuck in a parking spot there is a tire issue. Disregard previous statement. I have Kumho all seasons on my car now and they suck.

Summer tires are basically worthless during the winter North of the Mason Dixon line. I had Fuzion ZRi's on for one winter and they got around fine when they were new, but they totally sucked on year two(well they sucked in general but...). They were not my first choice or even a thought, but we had a re92 blow a belt on a road trip and those were the only set of tires anyone in that town had that would fit the car. I ended up buying some Kuhmo Ecsta ASX(all season) for $48 each from TireRack for last winter and they got around great in the snow and on wet pavement. I wouldn't leave them on all year cause they sucked on dry payement, but for $50 tires they got me where I needed to go. Those SPT(Summer Performance Tires) probably didn't have deep enough tread and probably don't even have tread wear bars which indicate when the tread is too shallow for snow use;).

I love my Yokohamas that i have on the car now... I also went up to a 225 width instead of the stock 215s.... made a world of difference....

And how much were those tires? We had them on our AWD Pacifica and they were great tires, but I think they were about $270 per tire when we went to replace them:eek:.

 

We put Michelin Primacy MXV4's on my wife's Outback and love them.

 

I see you are in St Paul, we're in Eden Prairie. The Bridgestone Potenza's that came as OE sucked (I don't remember the model) and the Goodyear Triple Treads were great, but wore terrible (yeah I know about alignment and rotating).

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=GTAS

I'm at work so no invoice in front of me. I know I didn't pay that much. They went on last winter, so my memory is a little faded right now.

Its always the tires, regardless if its AWD, RWD, or FWD. Those kumhos are probably like plastic in sub 40 deg weather. Plus with awd, it is easy to break the ass end loose and oversteer. I would not recommend that if you get sideways to give it more gas, not until you are comfortable with it anyway. True it is fun, but you could wind up hitting another car or a curb. Just let off the gas, but don't slam on the brakes, and countersteer, the car will right itself.

I love my Yokohamas that i have on the car now... I also went up to a 225 width instead of the stock 215s.... made a world of difference....

 

 

You never want to go wider with a snow tire, or when choosing a tire with snow and ice in mind.

 

 

http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=126

 

Myth: Wide tires provide better traction under all weather conditions. In fact, putting oversize snow tires on a car delivers better snow traction.

Fact: The opposite is actually true. Wide tires tend to "float" on deep snow, and the tread lugs never have a chance to "dig" through to the road surface to gain traction. Narrow tires are a better option in deep snow. The tire acts similarly to a knife cutting through butter; the blade works best when using the narrow edge to push through the butter rather than the wide flat side of the blade.

I'm at work so no invoice in front of me. I know I didn't pay that much. They went on last winter, so my memory is a little faded right now.

 

Probably a little less for the smaller tires. The Pacifica has truck sized tires on it.