Rusted Rear Brake Lines - Subaru won't honor their recall?

I have to agree with you. I was lucky my break happened in my driveway. If it had been a few hours later it could have happened getting off the exit ramp from the highway into traffic at the stop light...

I've been thinking about this one, why in the driveway and not while driving. And I think I have an idea, how old was your fluid? Since brake fluid absorbs water, the older it is the more there is water. The more water, the more likely the fluid is gonna gel or freeze, and when it does that the fluid will expand thus bursting the lines.

I had this gelling issue on my G20 with the clutch line. Last winter, when it would get really cold, my clutch pedal would feel really weird and I would smell the clutch. After I switched out the 5 year old DOT 4 clutch fluid, it went back to normal.

Has NHTSA been contacted? Document everything that Subaru has said and done, and submit it to them. The worst that could happen is NHTSA does nothing, it's more likely that they'll tell Subaru to fix it, or at least give Subaru a hard time about it.

I submitted my complaint and pics today. The more complain the merrier though.

My fluid has been replaced a few times over the 13 years I've owned it. Remember the wagon has been going to VT most every winter weekend its whole life. Its been through a lot of winter storms.

I recall thinking the wagon was a prime candidate for this problem.

"bergs" a ski buddy has a late 90's Sequoia. In 2015 Toyota put a new chassis under it because of rust. At no charge to them.

This statement can be applied to many things. One example being the bed on my Tundra that will some day disconnect from the frame. I pray I'm not hauling wood on the day it takes off and yet Toyota won't cover that under a TSB because the truck is older than 5yrs but they have no problem issuing a TSB for sticky door handles that are covered for 8yrs. Priorities backwards much?

 

 

Sorry to go OT but it's not just Subaru pulling shady shit with their safety bulletins and recalls.

Irrelevant. I was referring to one specific issue. I'd almost guarantee if the brakes failed and he was involved in a serious accident Subaru would be named in a lawsuit.

Irrelevant. I was referring to one specific issue. I'd almost guarantee if the brakes failed and he was involved in a serious accident Subaru would be named in a lawsuit.

I too am referring to one specific issue.....that being Subaru is not alone in their shady honorings of TSB's and recalls.

I too am referring to one specific issue.....that being Subaru is not alone in their shady honorings of TSB's and recalls.

The specific issue you're referring to is not the specific issue I am referring to. Hence the irrelevant comment.

Safety is ultimately the specific issue, is it not? The manner in which mfg's are handling TSB's and recalls is resulting in a continued safety issue for any given vehicle owner...the bed of my Tundra, the brake lines on OP's car, the exploding fuel tanks in a Pinto, etc.

"If" is not real. That word is the only reason I quoted you and responded and it is the same reason my response was called irrelevant. My scenario has not occurred just as your scenario did not occur.

"If the corrective action is insufficient then people's lives are at risk or serious injury / death." --The corrective action is not sufficient. There is no debate there....well, except from Subaru.

"I'd almost guarantee if the brakes failed and he was involved in a serious accident Subaru would be named in a lawsuit." --The brakes did fail however OP was not in a serious accident and therefore Subaru has not been named in a lawsuit.

"If the bed of my truck disconnected from the frame....." --The bed of my truck is still connected to the frame.

Point is, anyone can "if" this issue to death but none of it is real. What is real is that Subaru's lawyers are doing what they were hired to do and the vehicle owners are stuck with the bill.

This statement can be applied to many things. One example being the bed on my Tundra that will some day disconnect from the frame. I pray I'm not hauling wood on the day it takes off and yet Toyota won't cover that under a TSB because the truck is older than 5yrs but they have no problem issuing a TSB for sticky door handles that are covered for 8yrs. Priorities backwards much?

 

 

Sorry to go OT but it's not just Subaru pulling shady shit with their safety bulletins and recalls.

The day a school bus full of kids is in an accident killing everyone caused by a flying flat bed there will be a recall.

These are all reasons a responsible car owner should inspect their car to make sure it's in good working order every so often, even says so in the owner's manual of just about every car I've owned. If someone isn't a car enthusiast/ tinkerer it's still their responsibility to take the thing to a mechanic to have it checked out. That's why a lot of states have mandatory safety inspections. It sucks when cars fall apart, but they're made out of metal, that's what they do. Rust has been a problem on cars since they first started making cars. At least parts of them aren't made out of wood anymore. Shit breaks over time, sometimes causing accidents. Not much we can do about it but stay on top of it, that's just the way she goes.

If you guys are so worried about it we should rally together to make a law that says every car over 10 years old should be taken off the road and incinerated forcing everyone to have new safe cars and then nobody will ever get hurt. The government can go into partnership with all the automakers, they'll love getting rich off us. And we'll ban peanut butter from schools, and make alcohol and cigarettes 100% illegal, and take everyone's guns away, and wrap the whole world in one big sheet of bubble wrap...

I'm in a state with mandatory inspections, none of them have ever noticed the dangerously rusty lines. State inspectors don't get paid enough to spend that much time to find issues like this.

If this was a one of occurrence, I would agree with you, but I've looked under 3 BL/BP's this week and all of them had rusty lines, That coupled with most other Subaru's not being effected by this, tells me there is a manufacturer defect or cost cutting that's causing this.

I'm in a state with mandatory inspections, none of them have ever noticed the dangerously rusty lines. State inspectors don't get paid enough to spend that much time to find issues like this.

 

If this was a one of occurrence, I would agree with you, but I've looked under 3 BL/BP's this week and all of them had rusty lines, That coupled with most other Subaru's not being effected by this, tells me there is a manufacturer defect or cost cutting that's causing this.

Move to MD or PA if you want to be nickel and dimed by inspections. Take your car to a good mechanic that actually looks it over every oil change and makes you aware of issues like rusty brake lines before they cause a problem.

I completely understand what you're saying but what we are telling you isn't getting through. Brake lines are metal, metal rusts, brake lines blow out. Any good shop will spot the rust long before it becomes a hazard. Then, it's up to the customer to get them replaced or wait until they do pop. That's the life we live in the North East.

Move to MD or PA if you want to be nickel and dimed by inspections. Take your car to a good mechanic that actually looks it over every oil change and makes you aware of issues like rusty brake lines before they cause a problem.

 

I completely understand what you're saying but what we are telling you isn't getting through. Brake lines are metal, metal rusts, brake lines blow out. Any good shop will spot the rust long before it becomes a hazard. Then, it's up to the customer to get them replaced or wait until they do pop. That's the life we live in the North East.

I think we all understand vehicles will wear out and parts will eventually fail. However, in this instance, the manufacturer has issued three recalls for the system in question. A recall is a recognition there is a known problem that needs to be corrected. That is the difference between wears out and design issue.

These are all reasons a responsible car owner should inspect their car to make sure it's in good working order every so often, even says so in the owner's manual of just about every car I've owned. If someone isn't a car enthusiast/ tinkerer it's still their responsibility to take the thing to a mechanic to have it checked out. That's why a lot of states have mandatory safety inspections. It sucks when cars fall apart, but they're made out of metal, that's what they do. Rust has been a problem on cars since they first started making cars. At least parts of them aren't made out of wood anymore. Shit breaks over time, sometimes causing accidents. Not much we can do about it but stay on top of it, that's just the way she goes.

 

If you guys are so worried about it we should rally together to make a law that says every car over 10 years old should be taken off the road and incinerated forcing everyone to have new safe cars and then nobody will ever get hurt. The government can go into partnership with all the automakers, they'll love getting rich off us. And we'll ban peanut butter from schools, and make alcohol and cigarettes 100% illegal, and take everyone's guns away, and wrap the whole world in one big sheet of bubble wrap...

It's like I knew you were from NH before I saw the location

Move to MD or PA if you want to be nickel and dimed by inspections. Take your car to a good mechanic that actually looks it over every oil change and makes you aware of issues like rusty brake lines before they cause a problem.

 

I completely understand what you're saying but what we are telling you isn't getting through. Brake lines are metal, metal rusts, brake lines blow out. Any good shop will spot the rust long before it becomes a hazard. Then, it's up to the customer to get them replaced or wait until they do pop. That's the life we live in the North East.

I don't think you understand what he's saying, so I'll bold it for emphasis:

I'm in a state with mandatory inspections, none of them have ever noticed the dangerously rusty lines. State inspectors don't get paid enough to spend that much time to find issues like this.

 

If this was a one of occurrence, I would agree with you, but I've looked under 3 BL/BP's this week and all of them had rusty lines, That coupled with most other Subaru's not being effected by this, tells me there is a manufacturer defect or cost cutting that's causing this.

How many other high-volume cars (i.e. Civics, Camrys, Corollas, etc.) have had brake-line recalls? There's plenty of those on the road, even up here in the salt-laden NE, that don't have a known issue with brake lines rusting and failing. I see enough late 80s and early 90s cars that clearly have been neglected still on the road. I just can't believe that the owners of these cars are really adamant about inspecting and cleaning their brake lines when large portions of the body have been consumed by rust

Move to MD or PA if you want to be nickel and dimed by inspections. Take your car to a good mechanic that actually looks it over every oil change and makes you aware of issues like rusty brake lines before they cause a problem.

I like my freedoms too much to move to MD, and PA is too damn cold .

I live in a smallish friendly town, where we have a ton of shops (which means they shouldn't be too busy right?). If non of the shops have spotted this, I don't expect a big city shop to spend an extra minute looking at the lines, especially while changing the oil on the other side of the car.

The biggest issue with this brake line rust is, it's hidden by plastics thus out of sight, out of mind

I completely understand what you're saying but what we are telling you isn't getting through. Brake lines are metal, metal rusts, brake lines blow out. Any good shop will spot the rust long before it becomes a hazard. Then, it's up to the customer to get them replaced or wait until they do pop. That's the life we live in the North East.

I honestly think it's the other way around, you guys are assuming brake lines are wear items like brake pads and fluid, I'm sorry to say they are not. Otherwise Subaru would have them listed with check & change intervals.

Your brake lines, which are THE core safety feature of all cars, should never fail due to rust before the rest of the car rusts. If they do, there is a design flaw, PERIOD.

I think we all understand vehicles will wear out and parts will eventually fail. However, in this instance, the manufacturer has issued three recalls for the system in question. A recall is a recognition there is a known problem that needs to be corrected. That is the difference between wears out and design issue.

+1

I like my freedoms too much to move to MD, and PA is too damn cold .

You like freedoms and you live in the Nazi state of VA? :lol: Like where going 80 mph is automatic reckless, and 90+ mph most likely lands you in jail.

Not to mention the ban of radar detectors.

F*** that state.

You like freedoms and you live in the Nazi state of VA? :lol: Like where going 80 mph is automatic reckless, and 90+ mph most likely lands you in jail.

 

Not to mention the ban of radar detectors.

 

F*** that state.

While I agree I hate our draconian driving rights but we don't have a constitutional right to drive fast, but we do have the right to own guns .

Plus, since I care about gas mileage, I usually don't go above 75mph anyway

It's like I knew you were from NH before I saw the location

Oh god I know, the inspection process is nuts. Literally the ONE THING I can't stand about NH. I grew up in CT (which has no inspection, I used to buy rusty cars in MA on the cheap when people were dumping them) and once I moved here a few years ago I realized not a single vehicle I ever owned prior to my move would have ever been deemed street legal up here, not by a long shot. Heh, and I've never been in an accident that wasn't caused by me trying to pull some stunt late at night, or some other moron driving into the back of me no matter how "unsafe" my cars were lol.

I saw someone saying the inspectors in their state don't get paid enough to care. Holy crap that must be nice. Up here if someone inspects a car and stickers it that later ends up in an accident caused by a safety issue that inspector lands himself in a world of shit. You have to be seriously good friends with someone to get them to wink you through inspection...

I hate the inspection process especially coming from a state that didn't have any because I noticed no difference in accidents. You would think it'd be wreck after wreck with all those "dangerous" uninspected cars on the road, but I really only ever remember hearing one story about it and that was because a fully loaded dump truck lost its brakes on a mountain.

I do however believe in personal responsibility instead of blaming others. If your 10+ year old car has an issue, don't whine just ******* fix the damn thing like everyone else...

How many other high-volume cars (i.e. Civics, Camrys, Corollas, etc.) have had brake-line recalls? There's plenty of those on the road, even up here in the salt-laden NE, that don't have a known issue with brake lines rusting and failing. I see enough late 80s and early 90s cars that clearly have been neglected still on the road. I just can't believe that the owners of these cars are really adamant about inspecting and cleaning their brake lines when large portions of the body have been consumed by rust

Maybe they didn't have a recall, but I have replaced brake lines on many a toyota over the years. Lucky them, now they're not saddled with the expense of a recall. Subaru tried to do the right thing and it would've been cheaper for them if they kept their mouths shut lol. This is one small predictable spot that goes out, usually the whole line turns to dust, we should consider ourselves lucky. The owners of those cars don't go around making sure the lines are perfect, they wait till one gets really ugly or starts to seep and replace what needs replacing, or just cap off the bad line and drive around with only front brakes because they're a broke bastard driving a $200 car then just drive carefully knowing their car doesn't stop well (heh, I've been there my supra had one working caliper). It's not uncommon to see people buying brake fluid to top their master cylinder off at a gas station. That's life in New England for ya

Oh god I know, the inspection process is nuts. Literally the ONE THING I can't stand about NH. I grew up in CT (which has no inspection, I used to buy rusty cars in MA on the cheap when people were dumping them) and once I moved here a few years ago I realized not a single vehicle I ever owned prior to my move would have ever been deemed street legal up here, not by a long shot. Heh, and I've never been in an accident that wasn't caused by me trying to pull some stunt late at night, or some other moron driving into the back of me no matter how "unsafe" my cars were lol.

Doesn't seem like your inspection process is all that great , happened in NH.

https://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/pickup-trucks-cab-flies-off-its-frame-in-dumbfounding-c-1818976298

I saw someone saying the inspectors in their state don't get paid enough to care. Holy crap that must be nice. Up here if someone inspects a car and stickers it that later ends up in an accident caused by a safety issue that inspector lands himself in a world of shit. You have to be seriously good friends with someone to get them to wink you through inspection...

That was me, our inspection is $16 flat rate. To do it properly it would be 2 hours, that's $8 an hour for the tech. I hate paying that $16 for each of my cars, but at same time I understand that shop goes broke on these (unless the end user asks the shop to fix the issues).

I hate the inspection process especially coming from a state that didn't have any because I noticed no difference in accidents. You would think it'd be wreck after wreck with all those "dangerous" uninspected cars on the road, but I really only ever remember hearing one story about it and that was because a fully loaded dump truck lost its brakes on a mountain.

Likewise, having 3 cars is a hassle with yearly inspections here. I still see stupid crap get passed, but it sounds like it keeps our insurance rates are much lower then MD because of our yearly inspections, while MD doesn't have them.

I do however believe in personal responsibility instead of blaming others. If your 10+ year old car has an issue, don't whine just ******* fix the damn thing like everyone else...

 

Maybe they didn't have a recall, but I have replaced brake lines on many a toyota over the years. Lucky them, now they're not saddled with the expense of a recall. Subaru tried to do the right thing and it would've been cheaper for them if they kept their mouths shut lol. This is one small predictable spot that goes out, usually the whole line turns to dust, we should consider ourselves lucky. The owners of those cars don't go around making sure the lines are perfect, they wait till one gets really ugly or starts to seep and replace what needs replacing. It's not uncommon to see people buying brake fluid to top their master cylinder off at a gas station. That's life in New England for ya

There it is, your so desensitized to this issue due to your levels of rust. This is not a common occurrence in the rest of the country. You are not expected to change your brake lines EVER down here, like I said earlier if it was a "wear item" (which is how your treating it since you expecting replacement every x years), then they would list it on maintenance calendar.

Perhaps you guys need your own cars, like CA, with copper brake lines?

How many other high-volume cars (i.e. Civics, Camrys, Corollas, etc.) have had brake-line recalls? There's plenty of those on the road, even up here in the salt-laden NE, that don't have a known issue with brake lines rusting and failing. I see enough late 80s and early 90s cars that clearly have been neglected still on the road. I just can't believe that the owners of these cars are really adamant about inspecting and cleaning their brake lines when large portions of the body have been consumed by rust

In Upstate NY, the land of salt, mid-90's honda's with normal "northeast car" levels of rust tend to start popping brake lines after 15 years or so. My 97 accord cracked a brake line in 2011-2012 when I was blasting through snowbanks in a lowered car. It killed another line in 2014. A friend's 95 accord killed a line in 2013 as well.

Also it's worth noting: 90's honda's with dual diagonal brakes stop a whole lot better after they lose a brake line than LGT's do.

I fixed a brake line on a 2000, 150k mile, f-350 today. Quick, let's issue a recall because they all rust out in the clip above the rear diff. Brake lines are made of thin metal, metal rusts, Subaru cheaped out on the metal supplier so they've had some issues of lines rusting out. I see a lot of complaining about it being a safety issue, but how many of you have had your rusty lines replaced? If my lines looked like some pics I've seen in this thread, I'd be replacing them, not complaining on a forum about how Subaru needs to fix it.

Per the recall: Subaru will examine the lines, if they're leaking, they are responsible for replacing them. If not, they spray the coating and send you on your way. That's what was deemed acceptable by the NHSTA. Its not hard to comprehend, take care of your car.

Everyone wants to point the finger elsewhere and never take blame for anything. Funny you guys mention no word in the service manual about checking brake lines......15k mile service says check axle boots, axle joints, BRAKE LINES AND CABLES. I'm also humored by the "they don't pay attention to the rest of my car when changing the oil", well...stop taking your car to Jiffy Lube. Most shops don't make a lot of money on oil changes so techs are always looking for things to sell. Any shop that changes your oil and ships the car will not stay in business for long, you can't make money that way.

Note to self, never ever buy a car from north east and never go there since there is a good chance that most cars wont have working brakes up there.

I will still stand by, just because your harsh salting causes a good amount of your cars to need brake lines often, doesn't mean that's normal. You guys are so desensitized to it that you think it's OK for your brakes to fail on relatively new cars.

I live in the mountains of VA, with plenty of cold/ice/salt usage, and I never hear of brake lines going out. Oh wait, my friend's 1970's Doge pickup did loose it's brakes not long ago mainly from sitting around and not being used, since it only has 70k on it, but it wasn't even the hard lines, it was the rubber lines that went out.

What I'm pissed about is, Subaru "Fixed" the issue, to find out that the issue got even worse, which could have cost my families life. Sure I know how to stop a car without hydraulic brakes, but my wife, with a screaming kid in the back, probably wouldn't know what to do.

P.S. I do my own car work, this includes oil changes.

I'll preface this by saying this a new topic for me in a way. I'm in my low 30's, and even though I've owned a number of different cars, I honestly didn't know that brake lines rusted through on cars, call me stupid you want. I thought that a critical component like brake lines would be made from a more resilient material. I guess I'm a bit of an idealist, because to me brake lines shouldn't rust through after 10 years, no matter how much harsh winter driving that car sees.

If I were comfortable changing the brake lines myself, my perspective might be different. However, it looks like it would cost subaru $3000 to do the job, or around at least $1000 to have an independent shop do the job, and that hurts...

I'm still reeling from the $1000 bill for subaru to replace my cracked fuel pump housing.... I understand it's plastic, but I still don't think that a fuel pump housing should crack before the pump goes bad..

So I guess that's what gets me about this. It's just another part that seems to be failing earlier than it should (in my opinion), resulting in a costly repair.. Not to mention how long the TOB's seem to last on these cars, resulting in yet another costly repair.. I love my legacy, and while it has been relatively problem free, the maintenance it has needed has been expensive.

I see it on all makes and models but GM is definitely king of busted brake lines. I think all cars should have copper or plastic coated stainless lines but I'm not going to worry about something I have no control over. Subaru didn't fix a damn thing, they put a bandaid on a bullet wound which is more than any other company can say. If the lines can be pre-bent, I should stock up on some copper tubing and go to town.

Perhaps I see it from a different view since I do this for a living. If I saw a suspect line on my car, I'd be cutting it out and replacing it before I came on the forum to talk about it.

I see it on all makes and models but GM is definitely king of busted brake lines.

I would not use GM as a standard for reliability, ever.

I think all cars should have copper or plastic coated stainless lines but I'm not going to worry about something I have no control over. Subaru didn't fix a damn thing, they put a bandaid on a bullet wound which is more than any other company can say. If the lines can be pre-bent, I should stock up on some copper tubing and go to town.

Agreed. Something this vital should be of better quality steel, or SS or Copper by default.

Perhaps I see it from a different view since I do this for a living.

I hate to say this, but this further shines light on lightheartedness on this issue, you sir have a conflict of interest, every rusted line is profit opportunity.

If I saw a suspect line on my car, I'd be cutting it out and replacing it before I came on the forum to talk about it.

Hard to do when your still waiting for all of the required parts & tools to arrive in the mail, because where I live you can't acquire all of the needed parts locally (in not cheap steel that will rust again).

No American car will ever be a measuring tool as far as reliability is concerned.

It is not a conflict of interest. I am not a business owner so I don't directly see that money. I hate doing brake lines. They are the most time consuming and tedious car repairs unless it's an easy one that runs along rear diffs on pickups.

This sounds like procrastination to me. If you look your car over all the time, you should have been aware of the rust long before it was a problem. That would have given you ample time to order whatever you need. Living in the boonies is not an excuse to overlook preventative maintenance.

I don't disagree about the longevity of said brake lines but at some point in time "you" as the owner should be responsible for taking care of your vehicle. This is not directed at any one person but to the forum as a whole.