Pathetic Power?

tl;dr version:

I've got an 08 2.5i PZEV 4EAT, and I'm concerned at how little power I feel while driving it. It seems like there is no power under about 4500-5000rpm. Is this fairly normal (taking into account of course, that I am at an elevation of 5280'), or does something seem like it might be wrong?

 

 

Full version

So it has come to be a concern of mine that I feel like my 08 2.5i PZEV 4EAT makes like no power at all.

Back-story: I came from an automatic 2005 Mazda 6i (2.3L 4 banger). That car, while I'm sure in general is a bit more "peppy" than my 4EAT Legacy, just seemed like it was much much quicker. I was told that at the end of it's life, one of the cylinders in my Mazda wasn't firing. Not 100% sure on the validity of that claim made by the shop we took it to, but I know that at some point, my engine had become oil starved (not 100% sure why, never low on oil), and needed a new engine. It was making a pretty nasty grinding/clicking sound of sorts that was becoming more and more audible at lower RPMs as time went on, and was pretty much always audible over 2300rpm or so after I had been using it for a little while with its issues when we were searching for a new car.

 

 

Fast-Forward: It feels like my Legacy has pretty much NO power until I hit 4500rpm. Granted, I know I have some considerable power loss compared to others since I'm running at a much higher altitude than others (Mile High City FTW!), but I'm getting to the point of thinking something isn't quite right. I didn't really notice it at first when we got the car, but soon after we got it (we bought it at the end of May of this year), I started to notice a bit of a sound coming from the engine on startup. It was similar, but not the same as the sound coming from the engine of my Mazda. The sound happens at idle, and happens mostly when the engine is first started and isn't warmed up. Sometimes, it's worse than others, but it is pretty consistently audible at idle after the engine has been sitting for a bit, and it doesn't always completely subside after the engine has warmed up.

I've read about piston slap and loose belt tensioners, and from the videos I've watched, I think it seems more like the belt tensioner problem. The sound is more similar and seems more consistent with being audible at lowers RPMs and seems to go away at higher RPMs.

I'm only at about 42k miles right now (put on right about 5k since I got it). I haven't had an oil change yet. The plan was to take my car in to Suba Performance here in town last Friday because of the recommendations in the Mountain West Recommended Businesses thread, but I guess they ended up moving shops and I wasn't able to bring my car in on my day off from school. I was going to have them perform the oil change and see if they could figure out what the noise coming from the engine was. Guess I will have to get the oil changed somewhere else and bring it to Suba Performance when I have another day off (not for another 4 weeks until Fall Break). I don't know if it's normal for something like that to need to be replaced at 42k miles or not, but I'm not really sure.

(Side note: Any way I can check my warranty status? I can't remember if the guy said the warranty expired in August of this year or if it was August of next year when we were buying the car).

 

The more pressing matter for me has come to be that something else may be wrong. I literally feel like I make less power than I should be. Acceleration in my car is pathetic. I feel no power until about 4500-5000rpm. Comparing that to the dyno chart from BDII from his AVO turbo kit install since he has a baseline dyno for a stock 2.5i PZEV:

http://efilogics.com/dyno/graph.php?gb=0&hp=1&torque=1&rpm=1&sl=1&sln=1&runid1=1549&rgb1=000000255&runid2=1550&rgb2=204000000

 

And it just seems like something isn't quite right. Is it possible there could be something related to my sound problems, or is this somewhat normal? Should I be concerned or not really?

Take a video of the noise and post it up.

 

Change your own oil. It only takes like 20 min. While your at it chance the rest of your fluids. I would never buy a used car and not change any fluids for 5k.... That's just plain stupid.

boxer engines make more noise at idle than a regular I4 motor. just the nature of the beast.

 

you have a +3300lb 2.5i with a 4eat trans at high altitude. your car will be slow. nothing you can do about it without spending thousands.

To check warranty status just call up any subaru dealership and give them your vin, though at 42k I think you have only powertrain and rust/corrosion left.

I hate to break it to you but these cars are SLOW! There arent many cars it is faster than except maybe a 3 cyl Geo Metro, and maybe just maybe a Aveeo hatch

About making a video of the noise: I've tried. It didnt really work. I only have my cell phone, and when I tired the sound quality sucked and the noise couldn't really be heard.

 

I would change my own oil, but my parents dont want me doing it. And I'm not sure what all other fluids would need to be changed or know how to do it. Keep in mind I am only 17 and dont know a ton about cars compared to most everyone on the forums.

 

I know the boxer makes more noise at idle, but the noise I'm hearing doesnt seem normal.

 

And I get that I'm in a 3300+lb car at a high altitude with a 4eat. But the boxer engine in my car is supposed to have comparable power to the engine in my old Mazda (both about 160-170hp) but my old Mazda would have been running circles around the legacy. And I'm trying to figure out if that is somewhat normal for this car or if it is something I should be concerned about.

boxer engine makes a light tapping noise at idle, like you tap your finger on a sheet of plastic

you have 3300lbs car, 170hp sound like alot but by hooking it up with a 4eat and heavy AWD system, it down to 100-110 whp

2.5i is slow, but at least yours is faster than the 5th gen 2.5i

About the startup noise.. its normal with the PZEV from what I am hearing. Mine does it after sitting overnight, kinda like "wtf is that noise?". A slight tap of accelerator will get rid of it.

And I get that I'm in a 3300+lb car at a high altitude with a 4eat. But the boxer engine in my car is supposed to have comparable power to the engine in my old Mazda (both about 160-170hp) but my old Mazda would have been running circles around the legacy. And I'm trying to figure out if that is somewhat normal for this car or if it is something I should be concerned about.

 

 

its normal. the 4eat shitty gear ratios and the added weight of a AWD drive line make the car very sluggish. the dyno plot you posted was of a 5mt car. with your 4eat, you are probably just over 100whp peak, or maybe less due to your altitude.

 

If i were you id just accept the car for what it is. A good and reliable daily driver.

I love the fact that I've got a good, reliable, safe DD! <3

 

Thanks for the info everyone!

the 3.0R will do better ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and faster...

While these cars are slow, they aren't the slowest by any means. There are many cars out there that do 0-60 in the same range. What difference does it make if a car is .5 seconds faster to 60 any way? Even 1-2 seconds faster? Will getting there 2 minutes sooner be that much better? Come on guys. Don't blame your cars for not getting you there on time any way. It's lame excuse. On the other hand if you are talking about racing....that is even more stupid since we are talking about all wheel drive family sedans.

 

If you want to feel fast, go out when it's raining or snowing and pick fights with rear wheel drive cars at stop lights.

For the record, I never bought that crap that a car like the 2.5i could be "dangerously slow", at least in my world.

 

To get to the highway from my house, you have to use a suicide on ramp to get up to 65 with not great visibility of the traffic you are merging with. I test drove a 2.5i on that on ramp and it did just fine in pretty heavy traffic. Maybe it's a different story for other regions of the country/world, but it my book if it can reach 60mph in less than 15 seconds, you are going to be fine with it.

 

oh boy, I am in a ranting mood today.

 

/rant

My Legacy never had any trouble getting up to speed before I turboed it. Then again it is a 5spd so it has plenty of grunt through the first 3 gears.

 

And in regards to my dyno graph you posted, the car didn't REALLY pull until mid 4k rpms so that's typical.

For the record, I never bought that crap that a car like the 2.5i could be "dangerously slow", at least in my world.

 

To get to the highway from my house, you have to use a suicide on ramp to get up to 65 with not great visibility of the traffic you are merging with. I test drove a 2.5i on that on ramp and it did just fine in pretty heavy traffic. Maybe it's a different story for other regions of the country/world, but it my book if it can reach 60mph in less than 15 seconds, you are going to be fine with it.

 

oh boy, I am in a ranting mood today.

 

/rant

 

You're right. There are people with n/a 6 cylinder models that complain about the car not being fast enough in comparison to the same model in V8. There is nothing wrong with the power in our cars. Heck these boxer 4 cylinders are faster than many V8's from the emission choked 80's. Those would go 0-60 in 9-10 seconds if they were fast. Think about how slow the V6's and I4's were. We are complaining about 8.7 second 0-60? The 1984 VW Scirocco was over 10 seconds. A 1983 Saab 900 turbo was 9.9 seconds. A 75 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 400 cubic inch was 9.6 seconds.

 

You guys complaining about speed know nothing.

 

Check out the times from cars that were considered fast in their days (and how slow the more plebian cars were). People still were able to drive back then....

 

http://www.zeroto60times.com/Volkswagen-VW-0-60-mph-Times.html

For the most part my 2.5i is fine. There have been a couple times pulling out into heavy traffic that I was worried as my car has no up and go until about 3500 rpm.

 

I did test drive an auto and even in sport mode there was a noticable difference. I could never be happy with a 2.5i 4EAT

If you want to feel fast, go out when it's raining or snowing and pick fights with rear wheel drive cars at stop lights.

 

OH YEAH....... my thoughts exactly! One reason I bought my Subaru was because everytime we had a blizzard coming, I would run over to my Moms house and borrow her '98 Outback Wagon and park my BMW 325i. Lost the BMW and two motorcycles due to hurricane Irene... hellooo Legacy! Had it less than a week, today in rain I tested it in this one left turn launch where I always spin the rear (or front) wheels, Legacy stuck like glue. Weird but very reassuring feeling. I say f**k the snow... bring it!

 

For whats its worth... Subarus hurt lesser cars in vehicle crashes too. Seen it first hand myself. Also, my friend is an attorney that handles vehicle crash, rollover, etc. claims. He does the research for a living... he said for safety, drive a Subaru or a Volvo.

 

 

Enjoy that not so fast Subaru like the rest of us with the n/a motors. We got a really great car.

I agree MAx96. A 1994 BMW 318is 0-60 10.0 seconds. A BMW premium luxury car. A 2010-2011 Subaru four cylinder n/a would blow that away, but the Subaru is dangerous? Not fast enough? Not knocking BMW's or anyone's car. We just need to realize speed any everything.

For those of you who feel the response is slow, consider either getting a throttle controller, or a tune where the drive by wire tables are tweaked.

 

After my tables were fixed the car responds a lot better, I also don't like fiddling with stuff while driving, so I didn't want to get the throttle controller.

Learjet45, if you can't change your oil, atleast check the level until you can get it changed. if its too low, top it off and you should atleast be fine til the change.

definitely i think the elevation is killing the power. but it probably wouldn't hurt to change the air filter and what not as well.

 

the tall gearing in the 4EAT as others have mentioned is a significant factor in the car feeling sluggish.

suicide ramp?

 

oh yea, I have many of that in Boston, and I found the 2.5i was doing OK, BUT.... I had to floor it!!! same thing with passing someone at 60, 70mph

it's fine, but it is annoying..

 

for daily commute and for snowy areas, 2.5i is a decent DD (I bought 2:eek:)... for ppl that who never see snow, buy something else. Almost all FWD out there are literally faster than our 2.5i

 

FWIW you can always get a 3.6R or 3.0R for a smooth power + AWD + reliability (not worrying about the turbo)

suicide ramp?

 

..for daily commute and for snowy areas, 2.5i is a decent DD (I bought 2:eek:)... for ppl that who never see snow, buy something else. Almost all FWD out there are literally faster than our 2.5i

 

FWIW you can always get a 3.6R or 3.0R for a smooth power + AWD + reliability (not worrying about the turbo)

 

I agree. While our car isn't the slowest, it's probably in the slower half of the curve. Our cars are as fast as the Honda Accord and some others. It also puzzles me why people in dry weather climates would buy a Legacy. We get tons of snow and live in a semi-rural area that necessitates having all wheel drive.

Shit my 4eat 08 is not bad, feels peppy to me, and looks better then most car's.

I think the accord will "feel" faster than our 2.5i.. due to the smarter gear ratio...

4th gen leggy is the most gorgeous sedan out there ... look very classic and JDM, car that you can tell right away they'r from Japan :-)

 

I'm sad of what they did to the 5th :-(