EJ255 replacement options

I have a '05 LGT limited (Auto, 5 speed) and the engine has began to eat itself. I am very low on funds and I don't give two $h1t$ about performance. I just need my DD back as cheaply (and quickly) as possible. A used EJ255 has proven to be too expensive and mine has been nothing but trouble. I found a JDM EJ20 turbo online (low mileage) and it comes with a transmission and some assorted parts. I've also found a couple EJ253's that are a little cheaper. My question is, how hard is it to put a different engine in (mechanic will be doing this I'm an idiot car-wise) and, more importantly, what parts will need to come with it? I really don't want to sell it off as is. I doubt I can get payoff ($6600) from a car needing an engine. Thanks in advance,

The Stig's Appalachian Cousin.

TL;DR: LGT Ltd. needs engine cheaper than EJ255.

If a shop was doing, I'd think the EJ253 may be the cheapest route. Not sure of what's needed to be done to swap it in, but I know the JDM and older motors require more work than the mechanic may know(I have a version 9 EJ207 in my LGT...a lot had to be done to get it in there and running). The EJ253 was already available in the same chassis, already DBC, etc.

When my original EJ255 blew, I priced out a rebuild at a shop(aftermarket parts vs new shortblock) and the price of a swap; the rebuild(either new shortblock or aftermarket parts) was about the same. I went with a swap instead because it was only a tad more expensive; traded price of labor for a little bit more performance. Now that I think about it, the rebuild didn't include the cost of a new or rebuilt turbo...when the motor was pulled the turbo had a lot of play.

Read my click here link to see how to do it right the first time. 51,000 miles at 21 psi

Then read the first thread in the Tech Forums.

I have a '05 LGT limited (Auto, 5 speed) and the engine has began to eat itself. I am very low on funds and I don't give two $h1t$ about performance. I just need my DD back as cheaply (and quickly) as possible. A used EJ255 has proven to be too expensive and mine has been nothing but trouble. I found a JDM EJ20 turbo online (low mileage) and it comes with a transmission and some assorted parts. I've also found a couple EJ253's that are a little cheaper. My question is, how hard is it to put a different engine in (mechanic will be doing this I'm an idiot car-wise) and, more importantly, what parts will need to come with it? I really don't want to sell it off as is. I doubt I can get payoff ($6600) from a car needing an engine. Thanks in advance,

The Stig's Appalachian Cousin.

 

TL;DR: LGT Ltd. needs engine cheaper than EJ255.

I was in the same boat as you, except I bought my car with then engine blown so I could rebuild it. I just wanted to get the car on the road so I could drive it, and like you I was on a really strict budget and made the decision to re-build my own short-block because of that. I will argue that rebuilding your own short-block is definitely the cheaper route. It will save you a pretty good chunk of $$$-$$$$ depending upon what you stick in for eternals, or use your stock internals if they're good to go. I went with all new internals and saved around $1000 rather than buying a new SB. That decision didn't come without some work/time, but my car runs like a top and I'm about to break 5000 miles on the rebuild without a problem. I went with a JMP upgraded VF40. Hit him up for info on his turbos, I posted about it in my build thread:

I posted a complete break-down of what it cost me to do my rebuild you can see it in MrTris' #YNANSB thread:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/ersl-v2-0-238597.html

Or in my build thread and turbo info is there as well:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2005-outback-xt-rebuild-chronicles-238859.html?t=238859&highlight=chronicles

If a shop was doing, I'd think the EJ253 may be the cheapest route. Not sure of what's needed to be done to swap it in, but I know the JDM and older motors require more work than the mechanic may know(I have a version 9 EJ207 in my LGT...a lot had to be done to get it in there and running). The EJ253 was already available in the same chassis, already DBC, etc.

 

When my original EJ255 blew, I priced out a rebuild at a shop(aftermarket parts vs new shortblock) and the price of a swap; the rebuild(either new shortblock or aftermarket parts) was about the same. I went with a swap instead because it was only a tad more expensive; traded price of labor for a little bit more performance. Now that I think about it, the rebuild didn't include the cost of a new or rebuilt turbo...when the motor was pulled the turbo had a lot of play.

An EJ253 is an NA engine; it won't work, and isn't cheaper than the 255 shortblock!

See the Shopping List below. Unfortunately, there is no "cheap" way out of this.

You need a new shortblock and gasket kit -- ~2k.

Heads need to be R&R'd - ~$400.

New turbo - $500-1000.

. . The list gets longer, but, essentially, it's gonna cost you at minimum, 5k to get back on the road. Closer to 3k if you do it yourself, but, there's no "cheap" way out of this unfortunately.

How long do you plan on keeping the car? How attached to it are you?

If a shop was doing, I'd think the EJ253 may be the cheapest route. Not sure of what's needed to be done to swap it in, but I know the JDM and older motors require more work than the mechanic may know(I have a version 9 EJ207 in my LGT...a lot had to be done to get it in there and running). The EJ253 was already available in the same chassis, already DBC, etc.

 

When my original EJ255 blew, I priced out a rebuild at a shop(aftermarket parts vs new shortblock) and the price of a swap; the rebuild(either new shortblock or aftermarket parts) was about the same. I went with a swap instead because it was only a tad more expensive; traded price of labor for a little bit more performance. Now that I think about it, the rebuild didn't include the cost of a new or rebuilt turbo...when the motor was pulled the turbo had a lot of play.

he/she knows not what he/she is talking about....please disregard this statement in its entirety

You have a EJ255 shortblock, and then what? OP said said he was having a mechanic do it; so it would be Shortblock+labor vs a complete EJ253 that does not have to be cracked open.

As far as "no, it won't work, it's NA" I've seen that a couple times searching but no explanation as to why it wouldn't work; with a post on ClubWRX being the exception saying just swap in the correct harness, etc along with other questions asking the opposite(EJ255/7 into a 2.5i car) As stated before, this was speculation as no one has said why it wouldn't work.

You have a EJ255 shortblock, and then what? OP said said he was having a mechanic do it; so it would be Shortblock+labor vs a complete EJ253 that does not have to be cracked open.

 

As far as "no, it won't work, it's NA" I've seen that a couple times searching but no explanation as to why it wouldn't work; with a post on ClubWRX being the exception saying just swap in the correct harness, etc along with other questions asking the opposite(EJ255/7 into a 2.5i car) As stated before, this was speculation as no one has said why it wouldn't work.

I was under the impression it would be a straight EJ253 swap...no turbo. Basically turning the 2.5GT into a 2.5i with better brakes

I don't think that's the issue here. More of the DD(only car?) broke down, can't afford to fix it "the right way" so looking for a cheaper, maybe intermediate, alternative. Though, I've seen people do this with their performance cars when their other engine is getting worked done.

Stop, just stop. You're wrong.

No one has done a 255 -> 253 swap, ever. It's been tried the other way around and it doesn't work. At least not very well.

A 10:1 CR will result in knock in a turbo motor. Alot of it.

Further, I don't think the turbo heads bolt up to the 253s, 254s, and 259s, anyhow.

No, let's keep going. All you've said so far is, "No, it doesn't work" with no type of evidence. Right now, it's just pure speculation both ways. It's at least worth investigating. Is there any evidence it's been tried? All I can find is people talking about it. I brought up my swap because people said the same thing(including a local shop that initially said it couldn't be done).

As stated before, I wasn't talking about swapping the turbo components off of the EJ255 onto the EJ253. I don't see how that's "just wrong"....the plumbing for the turbo is on the engine itself. The EJ253 doesn't need a turbo to work.

Since you want to go further into it, no 10:1 doesn't necessarily mean it'll knock. Manley sells 9.8CR pistons and I know in some smaller engines, 10:1 is considered low or decent.

No, let's keep going. All you've said so far is, "No, it doesn't work" with no type of evidence. Right now, it's just pure speculation both ways. It's at least worth investigating. Is there any evidence it's been tried? All I can find is people talking about it. I brought up my swap because people said the same thing(including a local shop that initially said it couldn't be done).

 

As stated before, I wasn't talking about swapping the turbo components off of the EJ255 onto the EJ253. I don't see how that's "just wrong"....the plumbing for the turbo is on the engine itself.

 

Since you want to go further into it, no 10:1 doesn't necessarily mean it'll knock. Manley sells 9.8CR pistons and I know in some smaller engines, 10:1 is considered low or decent.

OK, well, that's just the mechanical side of it. Then there's the electrical/ECU side of it. There at least five sensors that differentiate a turbo from an NA engine wiring harness, and ALL of them lead back through the CANBUS (big plug on passenger strut towerr) to the ECU, which is turbo and NA specific.

Do we really have to break this down for you? You can't just go switching turbo to NA or vice-versa -- it's not like flipping or switch or hiring an ECU whisperer to say, "Hey, there's no more turbo, just, y'know, use less fuel and stuff, OK?"

CANBUS was on 07 and newer. 05-06(which applies to him), did not.

Unlike the CANBUS models, the 05-06 ROM can easily changed or you can use the 2.5i ECU assuming you address the immobilizer(if equipped).

Tris is right. The difference in compression ratio is going to make a huge difference when it comes to the engine knocking and the ecu being able to recognize the engine and the sensors. You are right it is possible to put in higher compression pistons into a turbo engine however typically the cars running those pistons are race cars running race gas and possibly even a water methanol set up to control the burn of the gasoline and prevent knock. Putting the 253 in with the turbo heads if they would even bolt up would completely through off the sensors of the engine and the compression ratio as the firing chamber is different on each head.

My family has a 1973 Alfa Romeo spider we bought from my uncle a few years back that he built as a race car with a high compression NA build 14:1 CR. If you run regular premium with any percentage ethanol in it the engine knocks. We have to go to the only local station which is a farm supply station to get fuel without ethanol in it to prevent knock.

Saying Manley offers 9.8:1 FORGED pistons is much different then the stock cast pistons. You run the 253 pistons with a turbo with the computer assuming it's stock will be very short lived. We all know how well the stock subaru pistons hold up to knock.

You can make anything work with enough money but to take a gt and turn it to a na seems like alot of work and costly. Would be cheaper to pick up a Honda civic which will still get better mpg.

CANBUS was on 07 and newer. 05-06(which applies to him), did not.

 

Unlike the CANBUS models, the 05-06 ROM can easily changed or you can use the 2.5i ECU assuming you address the immobilizer(if equipped).

Also wrong. See every thread about an 05 or 06 LGT (including mine!) that, after a rebuild, or major work where the big plug was undone, got an "Er Hc" code on the dash, which means there is an error in the High Speed CANBUS system.

I'm done arguing with you about this. You're wrong, and now I'm going to go make a sammich.

Saying Manley offers 9.8:1 FORGED pistons is much different then the stock cast pistons. You run the 253 pistons with a turbo with the computer assuming it's stock will be very short lived. We all know how well the stock subaru pistons hold up to knock.

 

You can make anything work with enough money but to take a gt and turn it to a na seems like alot of work and costly. Would be cheaper to pick up a Honda civic which will still get better mpg.

That comment was directed at the general statement that "10:1 will cause a lot of knock in a turbo motor". In general, necessarily, but in the application you describe(EJ253), I'd agree.

Well, that's what we're trying to figure out here. OP is looking for cost-effective due to being on a budget. Comparing the options so far, only thing we know for sure is a straight EJ253 engine is cheaper than rebuilding the EJ255(~$2000 vs $2900+labor). No one can say what's involved or what the final cost of putting in a EJ253 is, at least not yet.

Regarding a Civic...I'd agree. Surprisingly, a decent cheap one is hard to find due to people modding them. I only know this because my brother went that route when his Insight battery went bad(he ended up getting a used Accord).

Also wrong. See every thread about an 05 or 06 LGT (including mine!) that, after a rebuild, or major work where the big plug was undone, got an "Er Hc" code on the dash, which means there is an error in the High Speed CANBUS system.

 

I'm done arguing with you about this. You're wrong, and now I'm going to go make a sammich.

I have an 05 LGT also. Only time my dash threw that code was when the ignition coil plug shorted out or the green connector was hooked up. IIRC, on those cars, CANBUS was used with the other electrical equipment(it's in the manual).

CANBUS was on 07 and newer. 05-06(which applies to him), did not.

 

Unlike the CANBUS models, the 05-06 ROM can easily changed or you can use the 2.5i ECU assuming you address the immobilizer(if equipped).

OP nor I brought up using turbo heads or a turbo on the EJ253. If that's what the OP intended to do, then I'm wrong. I don't know if this came from him mentioning replacing/rebuilding the EJ255 shortblock vs running a EJ253 longblock(without the turbo).

I have an 05 LGT also. Only time my dash threw that code was when the ignition coil plug shorted out.

OK, with that in mind, why did you claim (above) that only the 07s + had CANBUS?

I declare you to be either trolling, or mentally incapacitated; enough so that your operation of a motor vehicle should be considered felonious. We've had numerous discussions of NA to turbo, and all have been shut down the same way: Not possible, nor effective. Why should this situation be any different?