LaplaceTransform Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I haven't been on LGT.com in a while -- I just thought I would chime in with my results with my 2007 2.5i and the never-ending mod's. Edit: for all those who are viewing this thread and thinking about doing this to his/her 2.5i, I am including part/labor costs on the following list... Edit: All together (that is, if I had to pay for labor and paid full price for parts), you should expect to pay $6895-$7395 to do what I have done! So far, I have done the following: Engine: 3" Header-Back Mandrel Custom Exhaust with FlowMaster Mufflers FINALLY INSTALLED: APS Split-Pulse Equal-Length Headers! The part, new, would be about $1500 -- labor would be about $300-600 3" CAI with a 2.5" Perrin MAF The intake costs about $30, the Perrin MAF housing was $50 -- it's easy to install yourself, so no labor Rallitek/Delta 2.5i AVLS Cams Cams are $375 shipped/tax, labor would be about $800-$1000 Perrin Lightweight Crank Pulley Part was about $80, With the correct tools, it's easy to install -- no labor here RC 750cc Injectors (I know, overkill, but they're awesome injectors) Parts cost $275, Labor would be about $275 Full E-85 Tune No parts, Dyno time with flat-rate OpenECU tune would be $360 (at least at MAC Autosport) Suspension: Koni Yellow (front inserts, rear full) Struts Parts were about $750, Labor was about $425 Rallitek Springs Springs were $250, labor is included in the strut install Other Drivetrain: Agency Power Shifter Bushings Parts were about $30 -- no labor, but the bushings are kind of a pain to put in Agency Power Braided SS Clutch Line Part was $45, pretty simple to install -- I just messed up and sheared off my hard line -- don't do this! Exedy Stage 1 Clutch Clutch was $400 (I think) and labor was $550 Hawk HP-Plus Front/Rear Brake Pads Pads (F/R) were about $220 (this was a smoking deal) and labor would be about $180 And now -- for the dyno's: Stock: I don't have the sheet, but others have been reporting around 112hp/116ft-lb of torque After a CONSERVATIVE E-85 Tune: http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/e85crap.jpg With Cams -- Before a Proper Tune (Comparison): http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/e85vsbadcam.jpg Before Tune/After Tune With Cams: http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/pickupfromtuneac.jpg Comparison E-85 Without Cams/After Cam Tune: http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/e85vscams.jpg Before 3" exhaust (after cams, still on E-85) to after (we're still not done with tuning!) http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/b4afterexh.jpg Flow Graphs: Note that the higher airflow after the cams and with headers are different -- this is due to ambient temperature... The before/after cams graph has constant ambient temperature between it's two runs; same goes for the headers runs -- the two graphs were done in different conditions... Before/After Cams: http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/Flow.jpg Before/After Headers: http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/headers.jpg Not bad for a little 2.5i at altitude!!! We are going to re-dyno the car when it gets warmer to see if the power goes up (and a little bit more tuning). Special thanks to Nick (Tuner), Adam (Tech), Shane (Tech), and Mike (Fabricator/Tech) at MAC Autosport for helping me through all of this!!! Post if you are thinking about doing the cams, too!!! The cams are worth every penny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 My 08 2.5i had a base avg of 120.17 HP across 5 pulls stock which is what most people report so your max was 141 hp with the whole list of mods. so you gained ~21 hp at the wheel and spent a decent amount of money only to still not be fast LOL. Im not hating on you but it amazes me how poor our engines respond to bolt-ons. The only bang for your buck is a turbo kits it seems like it. That is a lot of modding I only wish it netted you more ponies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaplaceTransform Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 My 08 2.5i had a base avg of 120.17 HP across 5 pulls stock which is what most people report so your max was 141 hp with the whole list of mods. so you gained ~21 hp at the wheel and spent a decent amount of money only to still not be fast LOL. Im not hating on you but it amazes me how poor our engines respond to bolt-ons. The only bang for your buck is a turbo kits it seems like it. That is a lot of modding I only wish it netted you more ponies I hear you -- the 2.5i is not a beast...I have actually paid a lot less than you think (connections FTW!) We think it's making more -- I also haven't actually put the 3" exhaust on my car yet (I'm still boasting a stock 2" one with all three super-restrictive cats -- the 3" catless is going on tonight). We think it's good for another 10-15hp (I know, it sounds like a lot, but with E-85, there is a LOT more exhaust gas and the 2" is critically restricting the flow). The cold weather here in Parker, Colorado is causing all of our dyno's to read low though...In the summer, I'm guessing I'll gain another 15hp on top of that...We'll see! BTW GEE OTTO -- do you have your actual dyno sheet? I have a baseline for my boss' '07 Impreza 2.5i, but I need one for an actual Leggie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 No I dont have it anymore in physical form but i do have it saved on a HDD somewhere packed up (I logged in 2008) The stock is 2.25" and we only have two cats, both of which flow more than the 2.5i heads can put out. The warmer air in the summer will decrease your HP esp at that altitude. You should reconsider the 3" exhaust for a 2.25" or 2.5" setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akline5 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I kinda want to see this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005legacy2.5i Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I kinda want to see this... ^+1 we need to have a Denver meet this spring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimouasta Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 The stock is 2.25" and we only have two cats, both of which flow more than the 2.5i heads can put out. wait so you mean there are no gains going to aftermarket header plus high flow cat because the 2.5i heads can't utilize them anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaplaceTransform Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 ^+1 we need to have a Denver meet this spring I'm definitely down for a little Denver meet. I kind of want to see what other 2.5i owners are doing with their cars in Denver. You guys just can't give me crap about my front bumper (trailer hitch) WRT the 3" exhaust -- I know it's overkill, but I work at a shop that does custom fabrication with mandrel bends, so I get a deal on it (the 3" is just a tiny bit more than a 2.5" for me). I will be posting pictures of the exhaust once it's finished (I currently have no mufflers on my car -- needless to say, it is LOUD). wait so you mean there are no gains going to aftermarket header plus high flow cat because the 2.5i heads can't utilize them anyway? I don't know about this one -- the stock exhaust is just not enough for E-85; the heads do flow pretty well with ethanol and cams... I'm getting a reading on my MAF of 138g/s when the values are scaled to the injectors...That's pretty good for N/A! No I dont have it anymore in physical form but i do have it saved on a HDD somewhere packed up (I logged in 2008) The stock is 2.25" and we only have two cats, both of which flow more than the 2.5i heads can put out. The warmer air in the summer will decrease your HP esp at that altitude. You should reconsider the 3" exhaust for a 2.25" or 2.5" setup. You know -- the funny thing is that I'm making the same uncorrected power in 100 degree weather as in 59 degree; the only difference is that the correction factor goes up (I know this is not typical, but my car does it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaplaceTransform Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 I haven't dyno'ed the car yet (probably going to happen on Friday), but there is definitely more flow through the heads with the 3" -- consistently 18% more!!! Here's the graph (Thank you Tactrix Cable!): http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/Flow.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 wait so you mean there are no gains going to aftermarket header plus high flow cat because the 2.5i heads can't utilize them anyway? Your cams aren't going to pull in more air based on shear mechanical ability alone, however a long tube tuned header and HFC exhaust with optimal scavenging traits will help it out a tiny bit ( it will promote a stronger siphoning effect to pull exhaust gases out of the cylinder which in turns pulls in more clean while the intake valve is open) . If this were a turbo 2.5 and you had a 2" exhaust that would be a limitation on the available volume the exhaust gases could occupy to have to exit the system, but our current exhaust is not restrictive for our engines output (exhaust wise) The HFC cat and header won't hurt however it will give you better gains down low or mid range depending on the style. Also to make the restriction point more simple there is only 7 inches TOTAL of catalyst on our exhuast piping split into two sections: the cat in the header ~3.5" the cat in the mid pipe ~3.5". After that is a resonator and two fairly straight flowing mufflers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Nice graph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaplaceTransform Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Nice graph Thanks -- are you being sarcastic or serious? In all seriousness, that is an actual log -- the exhaust did that much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katalyst Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Laplace, i posted a link to this thread in the FAQ under section 8. i think this will really help other 2.5i owners in the future who would be interested in pursuing this avenue of mods. thanks for throwing up all the details and graphs so we can have some real numbers to look at. always nice to see a 2.5i done up properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaplaceTransform Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Laplace, i posted a link to this thread in the FAQ under section 8. i think this will really help other 2.5i owners in the future who would be interested in pursuing this avenue of mods. thanks for throwing up all the details and graphs so we can have some real numbers to look at. always nice to see a 2.5i done up properly. Thank you very much! The reason that I posted all of the numbers (aside from having a degree in mathematics ) was to give other 2.5i owners an idea of what they could expect with the different mod's (I had NO idea going into my endeavors). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaplaceTransform Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Here's a picture of the exhaust once it was finished last night: http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/R1-01075-034A.jpg It's basically a 3" to dual 2.5" piping exhaust with Flowmaster 40 Series mufflers and a 3" SS resonator...It sounds really good (I'll have some videos soon) -- the only problem is that there is a bit of a hot-rod-ish sound from about 2500-3200RPM (I'm not sure if it's my rear license plate or the exhaust making the rattling-type sound). Special thanks to Mike (who is affectionately known as Chambo to us) at MAC Autosport in Parker, CO for doing the fabrication work -- he did an awesome job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaplaceTransform Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 I dyno'ed my car yesterday with the 3" -> dual 2.5" exhaust, and the results are good! I gained about 10hp and 5.96ft-lbs of torque over the basic cam tune alone!!! I also broke the 150hp barrier!!!!! Here's the graph: http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/b4afterexh.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimouasta Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 awesome! congrats. how much power do you think would make with those mods, but without e85? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorbrody Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 This is cool! I love a unique setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaplaceTransform Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 This is cool! I love a unique setup. Hey, Thanks!!! awesome! congrats. how much power do you think would make with those mods, but without e85? Thanks -- I'm stoked too!! I'm guessing about 10hp and 10-15ft-lbs of torque less (the E-85 allows for EXTREMELY advanced timing -- I'm hitting about 39 degrees BTDC up top!) If I ever move out of Colorado, I'm going to have to do a 91/93 octane pump tune (I probably should anyway) -- if I do this, I will definitely post my results... We're working on squeezing those last few horsepower out of the engine -- if you noticed on my graph, there is a little drop at ~6400RPM, and the low-end could be a bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.sane Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Nice to see a 2.5i take it this far good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaplaceTransform Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Thanks! I just got a PM regarding my tuning endeavors with my Legacy yesterday -- feel free to ask me about the required tuning steps -- I wouldn't feel comfortable giving people tuning advice to do it themselves per-se (business obligations and the fact that I don't want to have one of you guys blowing your engine because of a misunderstanding ), but the tuner at MAC and I may be considering doing some E-Tune's on 2.5i's should there be a decent amount of interest. If you're in Colorado, we would love to do more with the 2.5i's -- the guys actually enjoyed doing my cams and want to do more. I will be posting some video's of my exhaust soon. I do have to warn 2.5i owners who are considering doing a 3" to 2.5" as to the raspy nature of a one-resonator exhaust on our cars around 3000 RPM. I just put a 24" glasspack resonator on my car today and it really cleaned up the ricey sound... Thank you all for your comments!!! I had no idea that 2.5i owners were interested in going to town with mods as well -- it has been worth it for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubaruTim Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 How much did the exhaust fabrication run you? Can you get some sound clips of the exhaust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmhm17 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 P&P the heads, andTB / IM. retune and i bet you will get another 10-15hp.. still crazy money and work for a 2.5i, im not going to knock but its good to see someone going to extra mile to push some poneys out of this car. keep up the good work! A turbo in your future I hope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaplaceTransform Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 P&P the heads, andTB / IM. retune and i bet you will get another 10-15hp.. still crazy money and work for a 2.5i, im not going to knock but its good to see someone going to extra mile to push some poneys out of this car. keep up the good work! A turbo in your future I hope? Thanks! My friends at work want me to do ITB's -- this may be my next step...The heads are going to have to wait, though... Maybe on the turbo -- we'll see... Here's the promised video of the exhaust...the car didn't have a chance to warm up very much, so it did rattle and resonate a little bit...See what you guys think... http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/laplacexformofs/th_ExhaustAfterCamsandAfter3Inch.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaplaceTransform Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 How much did the exhaust fabrication run you? Can you get some sound clips of the exhaust? Well, I work at the shop that did the exhaust, so I got a HUGE discount... They quoted me what it would cost for one of our customers, and it would run about $1200 for parts and labor...Honestly, I think it's worth every penny for the average 2.5i owner wanting more power -- 10hp is nothing to laugh at for just letting the car breathe better... I posted the video in the previous reply -- just click on the clip and it will direct you to PhotoBucket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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