Data logging with a mobile device?

Here is my dilema. I currently have an accessport and the convenience of quickly viewing and logging realtime data from the car is huge to me. Really prefer hiding the AP away in my car so it is always there when I need it. I'm also not the most computer literate person around and really like the simplicity of the AP. What I don't like is that Cobb sets the prices for dyno tunes where ever you go. To the tune of $500! More than double the price of open source options.

For flashing back to stock if I need it, I can deal with the minor inconvenience of using my laptop. But for logging I'm looking for something more hand held.

I found the following two devices that can send obdII data to your iphone over a wireless connection.

http://www.ot-2.com/

http://plxdevices.com/product_info.php?id=GSST2WIFI

Are their any app's that can actually log enough data at a fine enough resolution to use an iphone as the primary logger? Or are these all just a gimmick?

Figure right now selling the AP could pay for a few additional stg2 parts and a custom tune.

Cobb Tuning sent out a survey about a year or so ago asking if they were to release a dongle and app for what you are proposing, would we be willing to buy it.

I am willing to bet money most said yes so here is hoping they have something in the works.

To date, I am not aware of any app/dongle package that allows what you are proposing because the Subaru ECU defs have not been released for such an application.

Porting ROMRaider would be a start.

As far as I know Subaru ECU definition development is as of late lacking since MerchGod has been hired by Cobb.

Have a look here.

http://www.romraider.com/Documentation/SupportedECUs

What you linked are not gimmicks but do not do what you are proposing.

They just act as any generic OBD reader would. You get access to the "generic" parameters but not those that matter. Reading speed, mpg etc is completely irrelevant to reading boost, fine knock learning, feedback knock, etc.

In your second link, just click on "OBDII Sensors" and you will see what I mean. None of the parameters that matter are there.

Nobody with knowledge has come forth and developed anything to date.

Here is my dilema. I currently have an accessport and the convenience of quickly viewing and logging realtime data from the car is huge to me. Really prefer hiding the AP away in my car so it is always there when I need it. I'm also not the most computer literate person around and really like the simplicity of the AP. What I don't like is that Cobb sets the prices for dyno tunes where ever you go. To the tune of $500! More than double the price of open source options.

 

For flashing back to stock if I need it, I can deal with the minor inconvenience of using my laptop. But for logging I'm looking for something more hand held.

 

I found the following two devices that can send obdII data to your iphone over a wireless connection.

 

http://www.ot-2.com/

http://plxdevices.com/product_info.php?id=GSST2WIFI

 

Are their any app's that can actually log enough data at a fine enough resolution to use an iphone as the primary logger? Or are these all just a gimmick?

 

Figure right now selling the AP could pay for a few additional stg2 parts and a custom tune.

What am I missing here...

I have logged virtually every mile my AP equipped cars have travelled. The AP is the only device I log with. From hundreds of miles at a time to trips to the store, the AP is there keeping watch, letting me see what is going on at any instant, and recording everything I ask. When I get home I plug the cable in from my laptop in the garage and download the files for when I have time to analyze them. And I look at each and every one.

It goes on from there, of course, those logfiles provide the feedback I use to either refine my tune or keep watch on it. I haven't taken my laptop out for logging for many months... its only real value there is logging WBO2 inclusive to the logfiles. But once the fueling is set I just keep tabs on it with the PLX AFR meter on the column, there to provide instant feedback as I drive.

But only the tiny AccessPORT itself accompanies me, its cord tucked out of sight. There is simply nothing better for the job. Nothing. It was the first money I spent on the car, and a bargain IMO. We are lucky to live in a time when Cobb provides such a technological marvel as the AP.

OP, are you aware that you can have an open source tune on the AP?

In other words, you don't have to have Cobb tune it for you.

OP, are you aware that you can have an open source tune on the AP?

In other words, you don't have to have Cobb tune it for you.

That's a little more than slightly misleading, isn't it? Worded that way people will think they can just put an OS tune on the AP, which isn't true unless you know something I don't.

It can be done, but it isn't easy nor for the uninitiated. See here:

https://forums.cobbtuning.com/forums/showthread.php?68160-Any-way-to-convert-open-source-map-to-access-tuner-race-or-Cobb-map

By the time you have that kind of skil level you may as well just tune it yourself.

Bad term used, my bad. I didn't mean open source, but unlocked tunes.

OP's objection is that he has a Cobb AP and Cobb charges a lot for tunes. That leads me to believe he thinks only Cobb can tune it since it's their stuff.

OP, anyone that is capable of tuning for Cobb's stuff will be able to help you.

In fact you can grab a copy of Accesstuner Race from Cobb for free and blow up your own car

So, find a tuner that can give you a tune. It doesn't even have to necessarily be a dyno tune. It can be as simple as an e-tune over email but you have the responsibility of datalogging the vehicle and providing the tuner with feedback to make the necessary adjustments to the tune. There are a few vendors here that do it, the cost is usually around $150 last I checked.

Personally I am not selling my AP for the exact same reason as you.

If selling or not selling the AP is the breaking point for you in terms of funds for modding, I am afraid you shouldn't be in this game at all.

You need to set aside additional funds not just for the parts, but also for the possibility that shit will break.

You have an auto and if you keep the transmission bone stock it may let go.

Have a look around for some options and see other threads on this forum.

Start with a tranny cooler; a valve body mod to strengthen the tranny is currently under works; there is a company that mods it but it is regarded as a half-assed and middle-of-the-road more or less.

Bad term used, my bad. I didn't mean open source, but unlocked tunes.

OP's objection is that he has a Cobb AP and Cobb charges a lot for tunes. That leads me to believe he thinks only Cobb can tune it since it's their stuff.

 

OP, anyone that is capable of tuning for Cobb's stuff will be able to help you.

In fact you can grab a copy of Accesstuner Race from Cobb for free and blow up your own car

So, find a tuner that can give you a tune. It doesn't even have to necessarily be a dyno tune. It can be as simple as an e-tune over email but you have the responsibility of datalogging the vehicle and providing the tuner with feedback to make the necessary adjustments to the tune. There are a few vendors here that do it, the cost is usually around $150 last I checked.

 

Personally I am not selling my AP for the exact same reason as you.

If selling or not selling the AP is the breaking point for you in terms of funds for modding, I am afraid you shouldn't be in this game at all.

You need to set aside additional funds not just for the parts, but also for the possibility that shit will break.

You have an auto and if you keep the transmission bone stock it may let go.

Have a look around for some options and see other threads on this forum.

Start with a tranny cooler; a valve body mod to strengthen the tranny is currently under works; there is a company that mods it but it is regarded as a half-assed and middle-of-the-road more or less.

Better

But to put this into the context of this forum's original intent...

I have to take exception with the bolded part.

I, and many others, have been using Cobb tuning software for many years now, and I am personally certain that the tunes I create are better for my cars than ones from all but a few professionals, if not all. After I sold my 05 LGT the owner took it to Super Rupair in CO to get it tuned. Their tuner called me and told me he couldn't do any better, wanted to know a few things, and admitted all he was doing was reducing the tune for the owner's reliability needs. That was with an AP and StreetTUNER Advanced. With ATR I've tuned both my 11 WRX and 11 STi, and defy any one to do a safer tune and get the same power.

After a while, tuning isn't such mystery. The margins become known. But the best thing is being able to keep on top of it... the mods, the gasolines, and the changes in atmospherics. If one wonders about different throttle maps, creating specialized autox maps, or maps for a cross-country trip where gasolines are unknown, they can be variations on your best that can be stored and flashed in seconds.

The AP combined with ATR is the most powerful TUNING combination there is. OS has been instrumental in making that happen. Were it not for OS Cobb's tunes and their tuning software would not be what it is today. However, OS is in decline. And in any case, OS is best in experienced hands, and an accident waiting to happen when those hands are not experienced. Further, despite the objections, it is not as safe overall and it is not as flexible as the Cobb AP.

You point about selling the AP for money is right on. An engine rebuild is not only expensive, it is a monumental hassle for most. Cheaping-out on the elements that ensure its integrity are foolish at best.

That was just a joke in the sense that ATR gives a newbie the ability to destroy the car. I was hunting at not messing with it unless you know what you are doing and the consequences involved.

I know you know, fish. Just trying not to scare the newbies.

You made a lot of good points in that post, as always.

What makes you say that open source is in decline? and what makes tweaking a tune with ATR/AP safer than tweaking with OS ?

It is my impression... AP is better than ever, so comparatively it is so. Plus, OS's most prolific contributor (IMO) now works for Cobb. And other than the founder there is only one member providing real technical input. Everyone else is gone.

Sure OS still works. I use RR all the time, comparing tunes, etc. But I sold my Tactrix 2.0 last year (kinda sorry now, Cobb undid the lockout I think, but at the time I couldn't use it). But I'm comfortable with ATR unlike I was with OS when I was making choices back-when. Cobb's software and AP are safe, IMO, unlike the implied threat of OS.

Bluntly, herein lies my prejudice:

Warning: RomRaider is intended for use only by experienced tuners who understand the consequences. As with any tuning solution, the potential for engine damage is very high when altering your ECUs hard coded values. The use of appropriate equipment (ie, knock sensor, wideband oxygen sensor) is extremely important. By downloading RomRaider, you agree to assume all risks and accept its license. Use at your own risk

I've heard all the arguments. I wish everyone the best of luck with their choices.

I guess it just seems to me the same risks apply with ATR+AP as do a Tactrix/VAGCOM + RR/ECUFlash. You can brick the ECU either way and you can mess up the parameters and damage something else just as easily.

I had an AP and I did find the "realtime map" feature very nice and when I had my laptop hooked up and could make on the fly adjustments with ATR. But I ended up selling my AP and going with RR and haven't looked back since.

Whoa haven't checked this thread in a couple days and there's a wall of responses. Let me clarify, local tuners that tune through the accessport have told me that using Cobb's software to tune, they are locked into Cobb's prices. Not that i am getting tuned by Cobb themselves. That is where my curiosity as to other options came from. I understand Accesstuner allows me to tune myself but I will simply never have the time to put in to make it worth it.

When I posted the question I had the feeling the AP was the only option for my preferences/needs. I figured you don't know if you don't ask and wanted to check if I was missing anything. Thanks for all the responses.

I really am a fan of all the AP has to offer. For my modest goals I was simply re-evaluating the ~$150 opensource tune vs $500 through the AP. This is from the same tuner so the end result is the tune on my car would be nearly identical in either case.

And thanks for the link fishbone. Going to follow up with Cobb and see if the dongle idea is still floating around. Although if/when that dongle/app option were available, might be left with the original constraint of Cobbs software and Cobb setting the prices.

As far as I know Subaru ECU definition development is as of late lacking since MerchGod has been hired by Cobb.

You're correct in that when Bill went to Cobb the flow of new definitions dried up for a while. Truth is the whole community was relying on his generosity far too much and few others were stepping up to take on some of the work. With Bill too busy for this, others have stepped in with a vengeance and definitions are being done at a pace now I haven't seen since the early days. Even better, the guys doing the hard work are spread around in different markets so for example ADM and EDM cars are better supported than ever before. I can get definitions made for new ROMs now in weeks rather than months. If Cobb thought they were going to kill the OS platform by hiring Bill they made a very serious miscalculation!

^All true, but sad to say some models cut off at MY09 or '10

Is this because those defs are compatible with the newer MYs?

http://www.romraider.com/Documentation/SupportedECUs

Either way, I've had my Accessport since the days of yore when it couldn't datalog, didn't have half of the parameters that it does not (FLKC, FBKC). It just got better and better through the years.

^All true, but sad to say some models cut off at MY09 or '10

Is this because those defs are compatible with the newer MYs?

http://www.romraider.com/Documentation/SupportedECUs

In some cases yes. In other cases the deffos are just in beta, not listed on that page, but available for download on the experimental definitions subforum. Other defs are available only on request while in alpha, and sometimes for Ecuflash only. Remember Romraider is not the only OS tool out there. There is no modern car in my market that's undefined now I've had a few defined to my request and done the beta testing on them.

Note again Cobb does not and will not support any but USDM models and a very few JDM. How much any of you like the AP helps me not in the slightest.

Someone in the OS community needs to develop a smartphone app to work with an existing dongle. They'd essentially have the market for this.

Fully support this idea!

Note though than the Openport 2 supports high-speed logging to internal micro-SD card. I have mine semi-permanently installed behind the dash using the Tactrix extension cable. I built in some USB ports under the blower motor for that and my LC-1. The guts are behind the dash side panel so I can pull it out in two minutes when working on other cars.

I usually keep a netbook in the car and often have my notebook with me for business so I can quickly plug in, grab my logs off the card and analyze them wherever.

A smartphone app sure would be nice though, so I could see what's up without booting Windoze. I'm working on some Bluetooth 4.0 products now so I'll ask the development team about the feasibility of this idea. They're just very busy with all kinds of crazy stuff that ordinary people want, not just a small subset of car geeks.

If I werent so busy, I would take on this project. But to do something like this is extremely easy. Romraider the main software used for logging with a laptop is already capable of doing what you want. There is a bluetooth device able to communicate with an obd2 port. All you would need to do is contact rom raider, see if they would share their code or maybe ask them to develop romraider for android, hopefully we would all give some donations for their time. But everything we need already exists. I'm running romraider on my shitty 750mhz single core laptop, i'm sure it can be ported to the android phones running 1ghz+ dual cores.

GAMEPLAN get romraider to reencode their software for android, which should be fairly easy, and make it interface via bluetooth obd2 device!

They actually have a linux version of rom raider.... Its basically asking to be made into an android app.

I just looked at the romraider site, NSFW is a current member for romraider! I believe Ive seen a NSFW post on our forums.

http://legacygt.com/forums/member.php?u=9519

We might already have a liaison for this endeavor! Anyone know NSFW??

I just looked at the romraider site, NSFW is a current member for romraider!

Quite a few of us are active on RR, we just don't all use the same handle on both sites