FJ Cruiser or Outback XT

You would think this would be an easy decision, but for some reason it's not. I decided to post this on both fj and outback forums to get BIASED opinions for both vehicles.

 

To give you something to think about:....

 

-They come out to the exact same price within $500. The Subaru dealer is giving me invoice price -750 rebate (on an 07) on a vehicle they have to truck in from another state because they are so hard to find. The Toyota dealer is being oh-so generous by giving me MSRP on a vehicle that has been sitting on the lot for over a month *sarcasm*. I have shopped about 3 dealers for each brand.

 

-I'm a transmission snob, so I'll only be driving the manual trans versions. So that means they will BOTH be AWD.

 

-I have a V6 6spd taco now, so I know all about the engine and trans in the FJ, I had an 03 WRX wagon a while back so I know all about the Engine in the Subaru as well. Bottom line, both are great, both are reliable. I trade in vehicles about every 15k-40K miles, so it's very important to me that I

A) get a good deal on it to begin with,

B) get a car with good resale value so I don't get burned when I trade/sell.

The recent anti-SUV stigma makes me fear that the FJ's popularity will crash like it has with all other SUVs. The Subarus are popular right now because of people leaving their SUVs for more economical means. But they’ve been out for a while so they’re already in the incentives mode.

 

-Gas mileage is better on the Subie, but it requires premium, whereas the FJ just recommends premium. It would come out to something like $35 more a month if it were the ONLY vehicle I was driving, but… it won’t be.

 

-I drive 95% of the time on paved roads. I also have a MINI cooper S which will do almost all of my commuter duty and will do all of my runaround, grocery getting, etc... 30% of that on road time will also be snow time as I frequently travel through ski resort areas (but don't ski), at which the MINI goes under the car cover and the Subie/FJ will take over the commuter duties. Snow, Ice, sleet, whatever, I'm going to be driving in it. I will be taking frequent long distance bad weather trips with this vehicle as well. The problem is that the FJ is too new for anyone to comment on it's snow ability (and I only care about the AWD version experiences anyway)

 

-Now for the 5% of the time, I frequent service roads and log trails to get to the good kayaking and biking spots (My wife and I are avid outdoors folks) These trails are rarely anything more than very muddy rutted roads with the occasional giant puddle. I rarely find occasions where the Subaru would have had problems, but I have found them. My big concern is lack of a low range in the Subaru.

 

-I used to do a lot of rock-crawling about 3 years back when I had my old Wrangler, but stopped when I got my new 2wd Tacoma, (which I am trading) and I also now have a 3 year old that takes up much of my time, so I don’t know if I would really get back into that or not. But I can see myself taking on some log trails that previously I had avoided, and would probably still avoid with the Subaru, would I be missing out on much, well all I can say is that I WANT to go back there, not need to go back there.

 

-I've driven both now about 3 times, the Subaru is, more luxurious, has 10X better seats, handles better than my old truck, and has many more features. The FJ has personality, off road cred, ruggedness, is smoother on road and handles worse than my old truck. The FJ has the personality and the little lady and I think it would be more fun, although she likes the Subaru slightly better (very slightly).

 

-We have one kid, another on the way and 2 dogs. We have no problem sandwiching them into the cooper now, so either one will do just fine as far as space goes, the extra set of doors doesn't matter to us.

 

-The cleaning is an issue. After coming in all muddy, which one would you rather get into, at first the answer seems easy, but honestly, I would rather wipe down a black leather seat than shampoo a black fabric one. Even pet hair is easier in the Subie, the FJ has the plastic floors though which make things easier to clean, but rubber floor mats in the Subie would mitigate 90% of the muck. Seat covers seems like an obvious answer, but that doesn’t fix the fact that the seats in the FJ stink and I have a bad back so....

 

-I’m 6’2 and My head feels a little close to the ceiling of the Subaru, as do my knees to the dashboard. My MINI has more room. The FJ is like sitting in a cubicle, spacious, but boxed in, with no way of looking out.

 

-We carry our bikes and our kayaks regularly, the FJ is just so darn tall, putting kayaks up there without hully rollers is going to be a nightmare. The bikes would go on a hitch mount carrier. The Subaru is at a more manageable height, but still proves slightly difficult, but much better than the FJ.

 

-I am a BIG stereo nut, and you can not replace the head unit in the Subaru, I could go the cleansweep route (or even the Navone Route) but with the FJ all I would have to do is unplug the $4k of stereo goodies from my Taco, and plug them into the new FJ, nothing I have would transfer over to the Subaru.

 

Any comments would be appreciated, I am making up my mind today at 1:00, so any input would be much appreciated

FJ for one reason........

With how frequently you switch out vehicles you will get burned with resale value with the Outback:(

 

If resale was not that important I would have def. said get the Subie

Having driven a modded OBXT and owning two MINI Cooper S's and an LGT wagon, I say FJ Cruiser without a doubt.

Oddly, the Subie Forum is also saying FJ, as is the FJ forum ,

Mostly because you claim the resale stinks, although I can't verify that from cars.com or nada kbb or other sources. You would know what youre talking about better and that's why I asked you all...

 

I should also state that I do value handling (Hey, I drive a cooper S) particularly emergency handling, and feel the FJ to not only be a bit wiggly, but downright unstable, thank god for the STAR system. It's like the shuttle, or the B2 bomber, without the computers making corrections they would fall like bricks from the sky. It's not like in the old days when lift and rudders were all you needed.

 

I very rarely drive on major highways, everything is twisty back country roads. That's why I LOVE the MINI (and the MR2 spyder before that). Oddly, the Outbacks .74g skidpad isn't much better than the FJs .71g. Now, lane change, I would like to see those numbers........

 

Keep em coming folks

An OBXT is wiggly too....not reassuring in emergency situations. I'd say, go LGT wagon or FJ. The OBXT is a compromise of both capabilities, doing neither well (though decidedly better on road). I should have kept my TJ....

The potential for aditional performance for both is def there. I was told buy the Toyota dealer a TRD supercharger will be avail the first part of next year for the FJ.....not cheap by any means but 315hp FJ with MT would sure surprise a few people.

 

The Outback would def be the enthusiats choice though....for about half the $$ of the supercharger on the FJ you could have around the same power & adress some handling issues also.

TRD has never really worked out the ECU kinks in their S/C pkg.

 

A normal car will tackle most fireroads...you don't need an OBXT or FJ to navigate them. At least near me, out in the Blue Ridge. The MINI won't do it well, but the LGT will (minus the lip spoiler I addded).

 

I guess it comes down to what you want. I loved my TJ for it's 'go anywhere' capabilities (which we actually did use frequently), but truth be told....90% of the miles on it came from commuting where it was horrid. Since you have a commuter....what's the intended use for the new vehicle? Fire roads only? OBXT will be better than an FJ here. Anything remotely fun offroad? FJ then.

^ you need to frequent the "fireroads" with the LGT more frequently.....I'll take the STI lip off you beforehand though;)

 

So.....you going exploring this weekend?

you should have seen pics of the first one...it died a violent death in a valiant effort to decapitate a pile of snow

How about a used Outback? Let someone else take the big depreciation hit.

Buy my 2006 outback XT!

I'm surprised you're not shopping the new RAV4 against the Subaru? Is it not available as an AWD manual?

 

With the twisties; 1.5 kids; and the kayaks to contend with, I vote for the Outback: one door per human. The 07 Ob's have VDC and plain old Outbacks of any persuasion (and with good tires) are terrific in snow. From the Canadian Driver winter Traction article last year:

 

The Outback is an all-wheel drive wagon with raised suspension, and it's designed for traction.

The Bridgestone Blizzak WS50 winter tires ensured maximum grip in our event, and when starting on the icy surface, the Outback just picked up and went. Stopping, too, was very stable, with the winter tires biting confidently into the surface and the car quickly coming down from speed. Under acceleration, the Outback has so much traction that you think it will turn on the icy surface just as it would on dry pavement - it feels like it should!

With the end/beginning model year deals with Subaru and the growing cult status of the XT, I don't think you'll do badly on resale at all compared to the FJ. The FJ's are novel now but may not wear well. You've identified that risk: SUV's are old news and the crossovers - the genre the Outback invented - is where the action and resale value will be.

 

I put a Katzkin aftermarket kit (all leather not just seating surfaces) into my OBW, and you could do the same for either vehicle for $1,000 or so installed.

 

For dogs I found urethane coated nylon fabric semi-fitted to the back does a great job and can be easily removed and replaced after hosing it down.

http://www.hatchbag.com/images/hatchbag_lg.jpg

 

With the back road driving you're doing and the fact that you're a driving enthusiast, you're going to hate having other people crawling up your butt in an FJ. With the XT (and replacing the OEM tires) you are going to be the one reeling everyone in on the twisties. And the straightaways.

 

If you were towing or rock crawling I'd say FJ. Otherwise, driving a sleeper is way, way more fun. The XT sounds like a near perfect fit for you.

and the growing cult status of the XT

 

Dubya Tee Effe mate, over.

Dubya Tee Effe mate, over.

The WRX generation has become aware that under that mundane skin beats the heart of a lion.

I live in PA where subaru resale is probably better than in the south...

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Nissan Xterra. I know that it wasn't one of your choices, but it's by far my favorite non-luxo SUV. It has plenty of power, a true 4x4 and it think it's available in a manual depending on trim level.

 

The Xterra will start off with a much lower buy-in price. Not sure about the resale. If I were limited to either the FJ or the XT, I would also pick the FJ. Nothing wrong with the XT, but you already have a daily driver. What you want is something that can handle trails, snow and be able to carry lots of cargo (kids). Everything your mini doesn't do well and the FJ does it better then the XT. The only advantage the XT has over the FJ is on road performance which you already have with the Cooper S.

 

Wow, new car every 15-40K miles. My wife only drives her car for about 3 years. We can only afford one person in my household with that kind of standards.

 

Good luck.

I live in PA where subaru resale is probably better than in the south...

 

OK - it's 1:10pm EDT?

My strategy to date has been:

Buy em while they're hot, or buy something with wicked good resale value or buy them used at one heck of a deal. Problem is that I'm a gadget hound, and I don't like buying something when there's a better version out, and one of the main reasons I like the XT was the new si-drive and the VDC.

I'm leaning towards the FJ at this point, but one of the main deciding factors may well have been that I NEVER got to drive the exact configuration of the Subaru that I wanted.

 

I never drove a manual XT, only the AUTO, I always drove a champaigne XT, never the Diamond Gray I wanted, So I was in an Auto w/ tan leather vs. the Stick with Black leather I wanted.

 

I saw the color I wanted, but never drove it. And never even saw the Stick.

 

Sigh.

I went with the FJ, but I delivery isnt' until Saturay, so... anything can happen between now and then, please continue chiming in with comments.

Test the car in the configuration that you want for chrissakes!

 

Oh, I would love to, the nearest one is 120 miles away. And the next one isn't expected locally for another month or so according to the local dealers. They were going to do a dealer trade and drive the car up to me. But they obvioulsy wont put the miles on it and drive it up here unless I am buying it.

 

I wish I could wait, but unfortunately I need to do this transaction immediately for several reasons. And I've been beating this around for a little over a month now.

What is the point of asking question like that on Subaru forum. 99% of ppl will recommend Outback by default.

Can I have your job? I want to switch cars out every 15-40k miles

Well.... No, I like my job.

 

My strategy in buying and selling so frequently is to shop around so I only lose 2-5K over the course of the year, equating to roughly $200-$400 in monthly payments. It's a risky and odd strategy, but so far careful product selection (usually picking hot cars) has worked for me. It only failed me once. 2000 Toyota Tundra, what a bomb that thing was, I did drop 60K miles on it though.

 

Lastly,

The point of asking on this board, and simultaneously on the FJ board was to get two very biased opinions. There were a surprising number of previous subaru owners who now had FJs, even one current XT and FJ owner. There were also a surprising number of subaru owners who admire the FJ, from reading other posts. I was hoping that perhaps there would be some aha!, or gotcha!, that I hadn't thought of previously that would swing me in one direction or the other. Ultimately, the Toyota dealer throwing in nearly a $1K in options/accessories swayed me. Like I said, I have until saturday to change my mind. I really do appreciate all the help so far.

Ok, so how do you manage to trade in a car 5 months later with 10K miles on it for $1000 less (Honda Fit)?

 

I guess that's why (in many cases) when we were shopping, the used cars were going for just about as much (or more!) than the new cars.

 

Saw it several times with Corollas..

You must promise to check back in with an update in January.....